The Pelosi attack.

[CountValentine]

That  is a separate issue completely ,one that i never accused you of.( i personally feel its extremely dangerous the way we overuse the antisemitism card).
what i was saying had nothing to do with your general opinions ( i think as jj pointed out ,you enjoy being the contrarian devils advocate, so its hard to know what your opinion is sometimes ,simply that you enjoy fighting with the echo chamber)
I don't even think think you have an axe to grind here, simply that sometimes  for the sake  of an argument you double down on your arguments even at the expense of reading things differently then you would if you were really trying to understand the other side
(a recent example is your claimed understanding of what was written regarding the CH riots)
You accused him of something unfairly and then used pretzel logic to defend your accusation

The point is you need call this stuff out whenever it happens. If you just want to say it happens on both sides, then nothing will get done.

As far as CH riots it would be hard to imagine to get a true picture of what actually happened on this forum.

[yesitsme]

Eh.

Nutcase SF libtard attacks Paul pelosi. mind you it's SF the libtard capital homeless druggie nutcase HQ in homeless nutcase druggie crime state California.

It's like asking me to join BLM. I don't support violence, I honestly don't give 2 hoots. People get attacked daily in California, no one gives a crap.

Queen pelosi gets attacked, blame trump!

What bothers me is the double standard hypocrisy. That's why this country is done.

Try saying something sensible like "something needs to be done about the crazy folks roaming the streets in la/sf/ Oakland / nyc etc" ....

And you get attacked with some screed about homeless folks priced out by greedy landlord *ahem, Jews*

Really? People just stab folks and throw them on tracks because they can't get the park avenue co-op?

You think I give 2 hoots what politicians say? .

Schumer said ", kavanaugh has it coming" kavanaugh almost gets attacked. . no one cares...

Rando crazy attacks pelosi house.   Well it's Trump's fault .

The media made up that crazy guy said "where's Nancy" sure, tie it in to Jan 6 which btw was nearly 2 years ago ...

No evidence existed that the guy said it but wtvr

See, liberals will scream about their causes "if you dare stop abortion, you're asking to be killed etc" ..

If a conservative or anyone normal says "hey you can't say that" they'll start screaming how the right is silencing them and taking away the first amendment..

For years, the left called president George bush "bushitler"

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I condone all violence, refuah shlaima to Paul pelosi etc. .

Focus on the nutcase city of SF and the mental health crisis rather than point fingers (or hammer's)

You forgot to mention that he his an illegal immigrant

[Yehuda57]

The point is you need call this stuff out whenever it happens. If you just want to say it happens on both sides, then nothing will get done.

Agreed

As far as CH riots it would be hard to imagine to get a true picture of what actually happened on this forum.

Disagree. Firstly, I linked to the official reports, 911 transcripts and the like. But in this forum you actually have people who lived through it, who's relatives lived through it. I can give you more than a hundred names of people who can give you first hand vivid accounts off the top of my head within 2 minutes, and I was just 6 years old and on the other side of the globe when it happened.

The CH riots were absolutely insane, and they are virtually unknown if you aren't visibly Jewish or don't live in Brooklyn.

[yuneeq]

Just reading up on this now. The basic facts seem pretty clear - mentally ill right wing nut job came to attack Nancy and instead knocked out Paul. But I would like clarity about the sequence of events and how bizarre they seem.

Starting from - Paul is in the bathroom, calls 911. Leaves the safety of the bathroom (why?), confronts his attacker, manages to get downstairs, though still tangled. He opens the front door with one hand while trying to wrangle the hammer away from the attacker with his other hand. The police stand in the door while the attacker wrestles away the hammer, and watch him swing it at Paul and knock him out before they are ready to do anything.

There was a debunked “conspiracy” about a 3rd person opening the door, but that actually makes more sense than opening it himself.

Just very bizarre overall.

https://twitter.com/sohrabahmari/status/1587238099486232576?s=46&t=TXjgurDodpgdntAu51UfBg

[CountValentine]

Disagree. Firstly, I linked to the official reports, 911 transcripts and the like. But in this forum you actually have people who lived through it, who's relatives lived through it. I can give you more than a hundred names of people who can give you first hand vivid accounts off the top of my head within 2 minutes, and I was just 6 years old and on the other side of the globe when it happened.

The CH riots were absolutely insane, and they are virtually unknown if you aren't visibly Jewish or don't live in Brooklyn.

If I was on a predominately black forum where they also lived through the same events, would the two accounts of what happened match up?

[Yehuda57]

If I was on a predominately black forum where they also lived through the same events, would the two accounts of what happened match up?

I think yes. The narrative might be different, but you will have zero first-hand accounts of what actually happened that contradict the accounts of Crown Heights Jews.

In fact, I challenge you to find a different factual account of what happened. There is a fortune of material available. Research what people like Al Sharpton said happened, even he doesn't say Jews were fighting against black people. The Daily News published a slew of articles on the 20th anniversary of the riots, mostly written by black people (if memory serves correctly). All accounts of Jews fighting against blacks were made by people who weren't there, and were not sourced. The city made a very thorough report. You can read the whole thing online. There are no accounts of Jews fighting black people. You can read the media coverage from back then and see none of the accounts of racial threats or violence are backed by any sort of evidence, whether pictures or firsthand accounts. They are just mentioned as part of some sort of two way fight "narrative".

In the past 50+ years, has there been anywhere in America where a racial group was targeted for 3 days straight with a violent mob destroying property, killing and injuring people, and chanting about killing that racial group? This kind of racial violence has not happened since the KKK. This is *one person*: https://twitter.com/shabboshouse/status/1586770493855911936

The NYT story describing racial slurs being hurled at black people and fights between Jews and blacks is made up of whole cloth. There is zero historic evidence of this happening.

[CountValentine]

I think yes.

You would be wrong.

The narrative might be different,

100% different. Your focus is on what actually took place, and their focus is on why it took place.

[Yehuda57]

If I was on a predominately black forum where they also lived through the same events, would the two accounts of what happened match up?

This was your question. Would the first-hand accounts match up? Yes they would.

and their focus is on why it took place.

And why is that? The thread I linked to does a decent job debunking the "grievances" claim. If you're upset about your landlord, you don't break Jewish windows, say Hitler should have finished the job, and throw bricks at random Jews on the street.

This thread just gives a few of Al Sharpton's quotes at the time - there were more, and others were also involved:

https://twitter.com/dovidmargolin/status/1586809738762850313

Please tell me more about the cause for the riots being anything other than age-old pure antisemitism

[dm123]

You would be wrong.

[Citation needed]

[CountValentine]

And why is that?

Why would they want to focus on what they believe was the cause of the riots and not the riots?
Maybe to justify or explain the riots in their mind?

[Yehuda57]

Firstly, you casually skipped over the bait and switch you pulled.

Why would they want to focus on what they believe was the cause of the riots and not the riots?
Maybe to justify or explain the riots in their mind?

I should have written it better. I meant why did it happen, what was the cause of the riots, not why they would want to focus on that. And again, Feel free to bring actual evidence of what black people who lived in through the riots said/say.

[TimT]

I think yes. The narrative might be different, but you will have zero first-hand accounts of what actually happened that contradict the accounts of Crown Heights Jews.

In fact, I challenge you to find a different factual account of what happened. There is a fortune of material available. Research what people like Al Sharpton said happened, even he doesn't say Jews were fighting against black people. The Daily News published a slew of articles on the 20th anniversary of the riots, mostly written by black people (if memory serves correctly). All accounts of Jews fighting against blacks were made by people who weren't there, and were not sourced. The city made a very thorough report. You can read the whole thing online. There are no accounts of Jews fighting black people. You can read the media coverage from back then and see none of the accounts of racial threats or violence are backed by any sort of evidence, whether pictures or firsthand accounts. They are just mentioned as part of some sort of two way fight "narrative".

In the past 50+ years, has there been anywhere in America where a racial group was targeted for 3 days straight with a violent mob destroying property, killing and injuring people, and chanting about killing that racial group? This kind of racial violence has not happened since the KKK. This is *one person*: https://twitter.com/shabboshouse/status/1586770493855911936

The NYT story describing racial slurs being hurled at black people and fights between Jews and blacks is made up of whole cloth. There is zero historic evidence of this happening.

Please don’t let facts get in the way of peoples emotions.

[CountValentine]

Please don’t let facts get in the way of peoples emotions.

Agree.

"A summary of the three days reads like a laundry list of violence: On August 20, approximately 500 mostly young blacks returned to the scene of Lifsch’s accident. Vehicles were set ablaze, a shoe store was ransacked, and reporters and photographers were beaten. The next day, hundreds of marchers gathered at 770 Eastern Parkway–Chabad-Lubavitch World Headquarters. An Israeli flag was burned. Lubavitchers took to the streets in response. Groups of blacks and Jews assailed each other with bottles. On Thursday, August 22, the tenor began to change, gradually, as the NYPD shifted its tactics."

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-crown-heights-riots/

[chevron]

Why do people keep saying he's a right wing nut job ? The guy was all over the place crazy.

Again, the first amendment is there for a reason, the political landscape is toxic on both ends. Saying things like "Republicans attacked pelosi for years" is quite moronic. .

Democrats attacked trump for years too..

The left really needs this guy to be an unhinged right winger.. that's why the conspiracy theories fly . Because the left so badly needs some crazy guy attack to be something as a result from right wing rhetoric.

That no one was watching the cameras before the attack sounds a lot like Jeffrey Epstein jailhouse suicide episode ya know.

Look, I don't care, SF is a dump, no one actually wants to fix broken cities..

If the left really was responsible, we wouldn't have Schumer saying justice kavanaugh will pay the price ..

[Yehuda57]

Agree.

"A summary of the three days reads like a laundry list of violence: On August 20, approximately 500 mostly young blacks returned to the scene of Lifsch’s accident. Vehicles were set ablaze, a shoe store was ransacked, and reporters and photographers were beaten. The next day, hundreds of marchers gathered at 770 Eastern Parkway–Chabad-Lubavitch World Headquarters. An Israeli flag was burned. Lubavitchers took to the streets in response. Groups of blacks and Jews assailed each other with bottles. On Thursday, August 22, the tenor began to change, gradually, as the NYPD shifted its tactics."

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-crown-heights-riots/

Again, no first hand account or source provided.

Here are the facts as provided by the official state inquiry:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/192737414/Girgenti-A-Report-to-the-Governor-on-the-Disturbances-in-Crown-Heights-An-Assessment#download

So far as I can tell, the only instances of Jews throwing bottles or doing anything of the sort (and they are few and far in between, without anyone clearly saying they witnessed that. Though I didn't read everything) was *in response* to violent attacks by large groups of rioters throwing bricks and the like at Jews and Jewish stores. IOW, only self-defense, no preemptive strikes. If you read the first hand reports and 911 calls, they are chilling.

[CountValentine]

Again, no first hand account or source provided.

Here are the facts as provided by the official state inquiry:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/192737414/Girgenti-A-Report-to-the-Governor-on-the-Disturbances-in-Crown-Heights-An-Assessment#download

So far as I can tell, the only instances of Jews throwing bottles or doing anything of the sort (and they are few and far in between, without anyone clearly saying they witnessed that. Though I didn't read everything) was *in response* to violent attacks by large groups of rioters throwing bricks and the like at Jews and Jewish stores. IOW, only self-defense, no preemptive strikes. If you read the first hand reports and 911 calls, they are chilling.

All I am pointing out there are different perspectives. Some see the "facts" in different light.

Take two people in car accident. Both have firsthand knowledge, but their stories can be completely different.

Now someone is going to pop in and say I just compared a minor car accident with the riots that took place. 

[dm123]

All I am pointing out there are different perspectives. Some see the "facts" in different light.

Do you have a second perspective or just hypothesizing that there may be one? If you have a report or source please share.

[Yehuda57]

All I am pointing out there are different perspectives. Some see the "facts" in different light.

Take two people in car accident. Both have firsthand knowledge, but their stories can be completely different.

Now someone is going to pop in and say I just compared a minor car accident with the riots that took place.

I'm not that much of an idiot (though I am clearly an idiot) to think there aren't multiple perspectives on the same set of events.

But that's not what you said. You said black people would have a different version of events, not a different perspective. There is loads of evidence and a 650+ page official report that shows this to be simply untrue. I pointed you toward places where you can read their perspectives and see if it came with a different accounting of the facts, and you have not done so.

[CountValentine]

Do you have a second perspective or just hypothesizing that there may be one? If you have a report or source please share.

What do you want as a source since the passage from the Jewish website is being dismissed?

[CountValentine]

Who brought the CH riots into this?