The hate just never ends, another mass killing.

[randomjay]

Yitamu chatoim, as chazal explain it, hate the sin not the sinner, pray for them to repent not for their deaths when change is no longer possible...

אין צדיק בארץ שלא יחטא and we all pray that hashem should be מאריך אף
but there is a big difference when you try to become better etc. and feel guilty for sins or at least don't promote and force your sins on others especially children.

[dm123]

אין צדיק בארץ שלא יחטא and we all pray that hashem should be מאריך אף
but there is a big difference when you try to become better etc. and feel guilty for sins or at least don't promote and force your sins on others especially children.

You know the chazal I'm referring to? https://www.sefaria.org/Berakhot.10a.2?lang=bi
It doesn't seem to me like it's dealing with people trying to better themselves, rather people consistently harassing a Tzaddik without compunction and even those we are told to not pray for their deaths.

הָנְהוּ בִּרְיוֹנֵי דַּהֲווֹ בְּשִׁבָבוּתֵיהּ דְּרַבִּי מֵאִיר וַהֲווֹ קָא מְצַעֲרוּ לֵיהּ טוּבָא. הֲוָה קָא בָּעֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר רַחֲמֵי עִלָּוַיְהוּ כִּי הֵיכִי דְּלֵימוּתוּ. אָמְרָה לֵיהּ בְּרוּרְיָא דְּבֵיתְהוּ: מַאי דַּעְתָּךְ — מִשּׁוּם דִּכְתִיב ״יִתַּמּוּ חַטָּאִים״, מִי כְּתִיב ״חוֹטְאִים״? ״חַטָּאִים״ כְּתִיב.
the Gemara relates: There were these hooligans in Rabbi Meir’s neighborhood who caused him a great deal of anguish. Rabbi Meir prayed for God to have mercy on them, that they should die. Rabbi Meir’s wife, Berurya, said to him: What is your thinking? On what basis do you pray for the death of these hooligans? Do you base yourself on the verse, as it is written: “Let sins cease from the land” (Psalms 104:35), which you interpret to mean that the world would be better if the wicked were destroyed? But is it written, let sinners cease?” Let sins cease, is written. One should pray for an end to their transgressions, not for the demise of the transgressors themselves.

[CountValentine]

We have threads for this type of discussion.

[imayid2]

You know the chazal I'm referring to? https://www.sefaria.org/Berakhot.10a.2?lang=bi
It doesn't seem to me like it's dealing with people trying to better themselves, rather people consistently harassing a Tzaddik without compunction and even those we are told to not pray for their deaths.

The מנחת אלעזר says that we pasken like R. Meir, not his wife.

[imayid2]

משנאך אשנא
באבוד רשעים רנה

[randomjay]

The מנחת אלעזר says that we pasken like R. Meir, not his wife.

In this case we are referring to a group that are not only חוטא ומחטיא , which is NOT the case with Reb Mier's wife.

Also, they shouldn't be considered a minority group. do we consider people with pedophilia a minority??? Dictionary defines pedophilia "a psychiatric disorder in which an adult has fantasies about or engages in acts with a prepubescent child"

[yelped]

The מנחת אלעזר says that we pasken like R. Meir, not his wife.

Others say we do pasken like her.

[imayid2]

Others say we do pasken like her.

In this case we are referring to a group that are not only חוטא ומחטיא , which is NOT the case with Reb Mier's wife.

Also, they shouldn't be considered a minority group. do we consider people with pedophilia a minority??? Dictionary defines pedophilia "a psychiatric disorder in which an adult has fantasies about or engages in acts with a prepubescent child"

Of course.
Was just cherry picking a source the way he was.
Next we can point to what the Halacha is in הלכות אבילות when bad guys die.

[dm123]

The מנחת אלעזר says that we pasken like R. Meir, not his wife.

Interesting. Mareh makom please?

We have threads for this type of discussion.

Link please?

Was just cherry picking a source the way he was.

You could've just cherry picked Rashi al hapasuk...

[dm123]

Interesting. Mareh makom please?

On second thought, not so interesting probably the minkatcher lishitoso. All the same mareh makom please?

[imayid2]

Interesting. Mareh makom please?

[imayid2]

On second thought, not so interesting probably the minkatcher lishitoso.

What’s your answer to his questions?

[imayid2]

What’s your answer to his questions?

And whatever your answer is it true להלכה?

[DaasTora]

I know CV is waiting for this so here it is...

Obviously the shooter is an heinous murderer and will be punished here and in hell for the murders he committed. Only g-d can punish sinners and there is absolutely no justification for this murderer.

But... am I a bad person that I don't have any pity on these people? people that sin and are proud with them, and promote it to make sure as many people as possible are joining them. People that damage our children by making them overly focused and confused on sxuality and gender, and while frum schools are still protected, in NYC I am required to have my employees -many time 18 YO innocent frum graduates- watch an hour of their crap under the harassment prevention training.

I am sorry, but in my view these people are BAD and VICIUS, and even besides my religious opinion -which I am entitled to - they destroy any morality still left in this world.

They do not deserve my empathy.

And besides the point that this sin is mentioned in the Gemara that it brings killing of people to the world.
So let the killing stay by the sinners and not touch chalilah innocent people.

[dm123]

Thanks

What’s your answer to his questions?

And whatever your answer is it true להלכה?

I'm more interested in hearing your answers to these, as I am sure you can argue and throw mareh mekomos much better than I can and as you say "cherry pick". I'm just here to point out that there is a more nuanced side to yiddishkeit that can be accepting of ovrei while fully rejecting and holding abhorrent the aveira. Eilu V'Eilu, and especially on a public forum I think the deracheha darchei noam side needs to be highlighted a bit more.

[EliJelly]

Eilu V'Eilu, and especially on a public forum I think the deracheha darchei noam side needs to be highlighted a bit more.

+1
It's not like a sink hole opened under the gay bar where it's revealed that God is in charge of his world, when such shootings happens people sympathize with the victims. We gotta be careful what to say and when to say.

[DaasTora]

+1
It's not like a sink hole opened under the gay bar where it's revealed that God is in charge of his world, when such shootings happens people sympathize with the victims. We gotta be careful what to say and when to say.

+1
But I still think that silently we have to try to see the truth through the hester…

[CountValentine]

5 dead and many more injured. None have been put to rest, but the thread is already trashed. Great job everyone! 

[Pony]

Famous saying of the kotzker... not everything that’s said should be written. Vd”l.

[CountValentine]

This is like spitting on their graves.

Colorado Gay Bar Shooting: Suspect Aldrich Identifies as Non-Binary, Once Threatened Mother with Bomb
https://www.news18.com/news/world/colorado-gay-bar-shooting-suspect-aldrich-identifies-as-non-binary-once-threatened-mother-with-bomb-6450073.html