Topic Wiki


I’d be wary though, [Kehos has] been accused of tampering with the text of when it doesn’t fit with their narrative, for example when the צמח צדק spoke with “too much” respect about the גר”א.
Yada yada yada

It’s pretty clear that my op was unnecessarily incendiary and provocative, it also did not account for who was קהת in that timeframe (which I had been unaware).
Because I brought it up I should say this: It’s clear that the allegations about the כתבי יד are unsubstantiated, and are thus conspiratorial.

« Last edited by Dan on January 13, 2023, 10:09:03 AM »

Author Topic: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery  (Read 46131 times)

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2225
  • Total likes: 2199
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #120 on: December 30, 2022, 01:23:17 AM »

He was 4 years old at the printing according to what you’ve posted, so why is that significant?

In general when the evidence doesn’t materialize to clear it up it’s a cause for much dubiousness. Although here there is a recent claim that it did, so I’d like to know more about it.

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 31012
  • Total likes: 7974
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4308
  • Total likes: 821
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #122 on: December 30, 2022, 01:24:24 AM »
So it’s קמח ישן for sure
ישן שאפילו חדש אין בו

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4308
  • Total likes: 821
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #123 on: December 30, 2022, 01:27:30 AM »
In general when the evidence doesn’t materialize to clear it up it’s a cause for much dubiousness. Although here there is a recent claim that it did, so I’d like to know more about it.
the evidence was there and offered in 5714. nobody drove down to lakewood to deliver it to you.
additional corroborating evidence was cited in the 5752 printing of the book, had you cared to look.

and multiple of the original 5644 editions at auction contain both versions, which coroborates that the correction goes back to the first printing, i.e. author's correction to the printing

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4308
  • Total likes: 821
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #124 on: December 30, 2022, 01:28:30 AM »
He was 4 years old at the printing according to what you’ve posted, so why is that significant?
his version was one that his father would have been involved in. it would be strange for him to hear about it years later from a third party had he never heard it from his father.

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2225
  • Total likes: 2199
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #125 on: December 30, 2022, 01:28:59 AM »
Doesn’t it sound like from this letter that the content very much played a role here?


Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2225
  • Total likes: 2199
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #126 on: December 30, 2022, 01:30:26 AM »
the evidence was there and offered in 5714. nobody drove down to lakewood to deliver it to you.
additional corroborating evidence was cited in the 5752 printing of the book, had you cared to look.

and multiple of the original 5644 editions at auction contain both versions, which coroborates that the correction goes back to the first printing, i.e. author's correction to the printing
So funny how people remain skeptical in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4308
  • Total likes: 821
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #127 on: December 30, 2022, 01:31:45 AM »
So funny how people remain skeptical in the face of overwhelming evidence.
troll's gonna troll.
that was the point that I accused you of not being imparital

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4308
  • Total likes: 821
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #128 on: December 30, 2022, 01:33:12 AM »
Doesn’t it sound like from this letter that the content very much played a role here?


1. where is this from

2. I have, for the length of this thread, not gotten into the interpretation of the language. I think it's pretty clear, but I don't have the patience to argue it. I have, throughout this discussion, referred to the story on its own merits.

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4308
  • Total likes: 821
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #129 on: December 30, 2022, 01:35:01 AM »
and regarding the brackets: there's diplomacy in giving benefit of the doubt about how high the rot runs, don't abuse it
(like the AR smile to his interrogators)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2022, 01:38:26 AM by gozalim »

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2225
  • Total likes: 2199
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #130 on: December 30, 2022, 01:40:33 AM »
and regarding the brackets: there's diplomacy in giving benefit of the doubt about how high the rot runs, don't abuse it
Perhaps he sees it as a great disrespect to the גר״א, a beis medrash he’s devoted his life to, similar to how you are reacting to what you perceive as a great disrespect to the beis medrash you belong to.

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2225
  • Total likes: 2199
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #131 on: December 30, 2022, 01:41:49 AM »
1. where is this from
The source is referenced is the footnote this whole thing started from

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4308
  • Total likes: 821
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #132 on: December 30, 2022, 01:43:22 AM »
Perhaps he sees it as a great disrespect to the גר״א, a beis medrash he’s devoted his life to, similar to how you are reacting to what you perceive as a great disrespect to the beis medrash you belong to.
get your timeline straight.
The גרא was no longer among us many years before the printing in 5644
But I'll agree that bracket is hardly relevant here

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4308
  • Total likes: 821
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #133 on: December 30, 2022, 01:43:53 AM »
The source is referenced is the footnote this whole thing started from
who is the letter from /to?

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2225
  • Total likes: 2199
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #134 on: December 30, 2022, 01:44:16 AM »
get your timeline straight.
The גרא was no longer among us many years before the printing in 5644
Relevance?

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4308
  • Total likes: 821
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #135 on: December 30, 2022, 01:46:53 AM »
Relevance?
nobody is accusing this rot of running that high.
But agreed not relevant to this discussion

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2225
  • Total likes: 2199
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #136 on: December 30, 2022, 01:47:14 AM »
who is the letter from /to?
I have not verified but it sounds like from the Rebbe to רב אברהם חן



Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4308
  • Total likes: 821
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #137 on: December 30, 2022, 01:51:32 AM »

That being said, having purchased the עוז והדר edition, I deeply regret that choice, as קהת did an incomparable job, totally outweighing that specific personal concern.

As the saying goes, hate makes waste.
The quicker you get over your prejudices the happier you'll be

Offline imayid2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2022
  • Posts: 2225
  • Total likes: 2199
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #138 on: December 30, 2022, 01:53:13 AM »
As the saying goes, hate makes waste.
The quicker you get over your prejudices the happier you'll be
Lol I purchased it years before I read about this, for no reason other than it was cheaper, without realizing the work קהת put in.

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4308
  • Total likes: 821
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: (False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery
« Reply #139 on: December 30, 2022, 01:59:38 AM »
Lol I purchased it years before I read about this, for no reason other than it was cheaper, without realizing the work קהת put in.
my apologies and condolences then