(False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery

[EliJelly]

It would be foolish and against Torah values for me to attempt to attempt to "rate" the gedoie haposkim. Suffice to say that they are all anoshim gedolim that we can all learn much from. I understand a chasid may have a particuler affinity for the seforim of his rebbe but what good can come out of trying to pinpoint out a "rating" of one great sefer vs another on a public foroum?

For that matter, what good can come out of rehashing a machlokis that enveloped klal yisroel 200 years ago? Suffice to say that there were great people on both sides and it was a machlokis lsheim shomayim. Lets not be like Korach, lets move on from what divides us and focus on so much more of what unites us.

My question was was actually based on this very premise, is it simply because of your point in your first paragraph or was it more rooted in not adhering to the beautiful point you're making in your second paragraph. וד׳׳ל

[imayid2]

My question was was actually based on this very premise, is it simply because of your point in your first paragraph or was it more rooted in not adhering to the beautiful point you're making in your second paragraph. וד׳׳ל

No and it’s ridiculous to think so

[zh cohen]

It’s indicative of his unabashed feelings of the litvash in general.

No, it's indicative of his academic cynicism with which he wrote about everything and everyone.

[imayid2]

I’m an admirer of Rabbi Baruch Oberlander prior to this btw. Here he is in his הערות on רב שלום דובבער לוין

[imayid2]

[lubavitcher]

for those that want this in manuscript form:
2 manuscripts from the Rebbe's library that say "ואינה תשובה".

manuscript of piskei dinim form 5622, 22 years before the above debated first print.

https://chabadlibrary.org/catalog/index1.php?frame=main&catalog=mscatalog&mode=details&volno=247&limit=0&field=TAPY&search=%D7%A4%D7%A1%D7%A7%D7%99&search_mode=simple

page 38




manuscript of פסקי דינים [date unknown]

https://chabadlibrary.org/catalog/index1.php?frame=main&catalog=mscatalog&mode=details&volno=3203&limit=0&field=TAPY&search=%D7%A4%D7%A1%D7%A7%D7%99&search_mode=simple

page 27



these sources were printed in the הערות הממו"ל of the 5752 edition of tzemach tzedek.



next time please check the facts before you throw allegations that a נשיא בישראל believed and told over false facts.

[imayid2]

for those that want this in manuscript form:
2 manuscripts from the Rebbe's library that say "ואינה תשובה".

manuscript of piskei dinim form 5622, 22 years before the above debated first print.

https://chabadlibrary.org/catalog/index1.php?frame=main&catalog=mscatalog&mode=details&volno=247&limit=0&field=TAPY&search=%D7%A4%D7%A1%D7%A7%D7%99&search_mode=simple

page 38

Thank you!

Though I’m bewildered why I’m being accused of “not checking the facts”, when I’ve been asking for information about them, and why absurdly I’m being accused of “making an accusation”, when I’m discussing someone else’s accusation, while referencing the fact that the claim is the manuscript supports it, and requested more information about it.

Touché?

[ExGingi]

next time please check the facts before you throw allegations that a נשיא בישראל believed and told over false facts.

-10000

Nothing to do with checking facts beforehand.

Throwing "allegations that a נשיא בישראל believed and told over false facts" indicates that some serious introspection is urgently due!

[imayid2]

Thou shall not even question, nor be interested in supporting documentation, about a פולמוס that was famous in it’s time and hasn’t quite died down, about the deletion of a the words “holy” in regards to the words of the Gra, reported at the time to be based in part on third hand stories, and an assertion the the tzemach tzedek would never say “holy” about the גר״א 

[gozalim]

Thou shall not even question, nor be interested in supporting documentation, about a פולמוס that was famous in it’s time and hasn’t quite died down, about the deletion of a the words “holy” in regards to the words of the Gra, reported at the time to be based in part on third hand stories, and an assertion the the tzemach tzedek would never say “holy” about the גר״א 

that last live is (your) interpretation

[imayid2]

Throwing "allegations that a נשיא בישראל believed and told over false facts" indicates that some serious introspection is urgently due!

I would absolutely disagree with this. Gedoley yisroel are mortal, and have believed things that aren’t necessarily true.

[imayid2]

that last live is (your) interpretation

In the letter to רב אברהם חן that’s not what was said? Or was that from someone else?

[gozalim]

Debating versions of manuscripts may not be an allegation, but "be wary of them, they have been known to tamper" when "they" is a נשיא בישראל, Is taking someone else's research a step into allegation territory

[gozalim]

In the letter to רב אברהם חן that’s not what was said? Or was that from someone else?

he says the language speaks for itself,not what it is saying.
My own understanding there is different

[imayid2]

he says the language speaks for itself,not what it is saying.
My own understanding there is different

That is not what he says at all!!

Doesn’t it sound like from this letter that the content very much played a role here?

[aygart]

 נשיא בישראל .

Not sure what this is nowadays

[imayid2]

Debating versions of manuscripts may not be an allegation, but "be wary of them, they have been known to tamper" when "they" is a נשיא בישראל, Is taking someone else's research a step into allegation territory

Fair enough!
“They” though was referring to קהת though at that point in the conversation, I’d word it differently when directly talking about Gedolim.

[gozalim]

I'm not sure what you're seeing.

To translate: just like R'Chaim could say "there's no such Rambam" because it doesn't match the style of the Rambam he knows.
So too, anyone who is familiar with the T"T confidence in Torah matters, as evidenced by how he addresses [even] the opinion of his esteemed grandfather [when he understood otherwise?]
I. E. The shock is not that he called him holy, but that he blindly accepted an opinion he disagreed with

[ExGingi]

Thou shall not even question, nor be interested in supporting documentation, about a פולמוס that was famous in it’s time and hasn’t quite died down, about the deletion of a the words “holy” in regards to the words of the Gra, reported at the time to be based in part on third hand stories, and an assertion the the tzemach tzedek would never say “holy” about the גר״א 

I am not faulting you specifically, as I have seen this time and again, all the way from teenagers to people who are old enough to have been in Shanghai during WW2. So I must say it seems like a hashkafic worm that has been allowed to penetratre deeply in certain circles. Said worm can only have two possible roots: extreme arrogance, or שנאת חינם.

Being able to claim (in a self-fulfilling prophecy, while claiming innocence) that a "a פולמוס that was famous in it’s time and hasn’t quite died down", when someone actually took the time and effort to reach out to the individual responsible for Kehos, who gave a definite rebuttal to the allegations, is an expression of said worm that keeps on resurfacing in various forms.  Do you also claim that there was a famous פולמוס whether בערב כל אדם יטו ויקראו or כל אדם קורא כדרכו that never died down? After all both sides are probably brought up all over the world on a daily basis.

[gozalim]

I'm not sure what you're seeing.

To translate: just like R'Chaim could say "there's no such Rambam" because it doesn't match the style of the Rambam he knows.
So too, anyone who is familiar with the T"T confidence in Torah matters, as evidenced by how he addresses [even] the opinion of his esteemed grandfather [when he understood otherwise?]
I. E. The shock is not that he called him holy, but that he blindly accepted an opinion he disagreed with

I. E. The shock is not that he called him holy, but that he allegedly blindly accepted an opinion he disagreed with