(False) Accusations Of Kehot Forgery

[ExGingi]

You answered much more than just saying

Yet you took it as

Then they do not answer my question.

And

Why are you avoiding a clear answer to my original question?

[imayid2]

No.

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs.


This would be what my rabbeim taught me:

[gozalim]

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs.


This would be what my rabbeim taught me:

I was going to say that thought the traditional non-chassidic view is to view their greatest gedolim as fallible mortals.
evidently upthread that varies

[Pony]

Any בשר ודם can make a mistake. If Adom Harishon, Moshe Rabeinu, Ahron Hakohen, Dovid Hamelech and Shlomo Hamelech can err (lfi madreigusum), certainly anyone’s rebbe (or rosh yeshiva or godal hador or nassi hador etc.) is capable of error. That’s just part of being human. Our job is to be the best we can be but perfection doesn’t exist in this world.

[Yehuda57]

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs.

This would be what my rabbeim taught me:

Any בשר ודם can make a mistake. If Adom Harishon, Moshe Rabeinu, Ahron Hakohen, Dovid Hamelech and Shlomo Hamelech can err (lfi madreigusum), certainly anyone’s rebbe (or rosh yeshiva or godal hador or nassi hador etc.) is capable of error. That’s just part of being human. Our job is to be the best we can be but perfection doesn’t exist in this world.

It's almost like you guys didn't read my post.

[imayid2]

It's almost like you guys didn't read my post.

The unrelated part 

How do you reconcile that with the “No”? Is there a story behind it?

To be sure, there are certainly innumerable instances when people doubted Gedolim, and they were eventually demonstrated how wrong they were for doing so.

[ExGingi]

Here's what some (many) fail to grasp:

The Rebbe isn't a godol. He's The Rebbe.

[AsherO]

Any בשר ודם can make a mistake. If Adom Harishon, Moshe Rabeinu, Ahron Hakohen, Dovid Hamelech and Shlomo Hamelech can err (lfi madreigusum)

כל האומר דוד חטא אינו אלא טועה

[gozalim]

Whatever I believe about the Rebbe's infallibility and immortality are beliefs that you will have to (or @ExGingi will say will) come to on your own.
Lying is off the table

[imayid2]

It’s pretty clear that my op was unnecessarily incendiary and provocative, it also did not account for who was קהת in that timeframe (which I had been unaware).
Because I brought it up I should say this: It’s clear that the allegations about the כתבי יד are unsubstantiated, and are thus conspiratorial.

[aygart]

כל האומר דוד חטא אינו אלא טועה

But did he err?

[Yehuda57]

Is there a story behind it?

No

How do you reconcile that with the “No”?

what is to reconcile? There are a lot of things I don't get, add this to the list.

To be sure, there are certainly innumerable instances when people doubted Gedolim, and they were eventually demonstrated how wrong they were for doing so.

There are innumerable instances of the Rebbe saying things almost identical to what he said to my father where people thought he misspoke and turned out he was right, including people having different names to what they wrote to the Rebbe, people visiting different locations, and on and on. Some of these are on video.

[Pony]

כל האומר דוד חטא אינו אלא טועה

There is a difference between an avairah and a mistake. For example, Yishai and Amram are among those the gemara lists as never having done an avaira. But but it certainly seems that Yishai was mistaken regarding Dovid and Amram was mistaken regarding staying married to Yocheved.

[imayid2]

כל האומר דוד חטא אינו אלא טועה

Fascinating אברבנאל on that

[imayid2]

https://www.kramim.info/article/ואינה-תשובה-שאלה-של-יושרה-אקדמית-תגובה/10203685

Not that this changes anything, but trying to get to the bottom of this:

He addresses this part of the article in the last footnote
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=65721&st=&pgnum=212

The manuscripts discussed by RYM and posted by lubavitcher do not seem to support this claim. Is this correct or did I miss something? Again, doesn’t change anything, just curious about it.

[gozalim]

Not that this changes anything, but trying to get to the bottom of this:

The manuscripts discussed by RYM and posted by lubavitcher do not seem to support this claim. Is this correct or did I miss something? Again, doesn’t change anything, just curious about it.

which manuscript are you referring to?

[Yehuda57]

If the purpose of a wiki is to clarify and simply things that might get lost in a thread, this may be the worst wiki on this forum. Instead of an objective summation, you have a different avenue to continue to wage the war in utterly confusing conflicting diatribes which make no sense to the reader. If you have something to say, say it in the thread as your summary. If you want to summarize the thread objectively it could be limited to:

I’d be wary though, [Kehos has] been accused of tampering with the text of when it doesn’t fit with their narrative, for example when the צמח צדק spoke with “too much” respect about the גר”א.

Yada yada yada

It’s pretty clear that my op was unnecessarily incendiary and provocative, it also did not account for who was קהת in that timeframe (which I had been unaware).
Because I brought it up I should say this: It’s clear that the allegations about the כתבי יד are unsubstantiated, and are thus conspiratorial.

[imayid2]

which manuscript are you referring to?

I’m trying to figure out which one he is referring to. RYM makes no mention of an autographed verified כתי״ק of the צמח צדק himself.

[ExGingi]

If the purpose of a wiki is to clarify and simply things that might get lost in a thread, this may be the worst wiki on this forum. Instead of an objective summation, you have a different avenue to continue to wage the war in utterly confusing conflicting diatribes which make no sense to the reader. If you have something to say, say it in the thread as your summary. If you want to summarize the thread objectively it could be limited to:
Yada yada yada

Agreed. Though I would add one substantive item in between. And it might have been the wiki that helped bring about the closing post.

On another note, I had a rather lengthy drive yesterday so I listened to Rabbi Paltiel's shiur on Basi Ligani 5711 (Muga). One class, short version. As always fascinating class. Very interesting tidbits in the introduction. And a point that might be relevant to the current thread is a discussion of אמת vs שקר. I highly recommend this class.

[dm123]

I’m trying to figure out which one he is referring to. RYM makes no mention of an autographed verified כתי״ק of the צמח צדק himself.

What you highlighted said it was a literal autographed copy?

What I understood it to be saying was it's clear as day to anyone that's familiar with the art of studying handwriting and styles and attributing them (don't think graphology is the correct term here?) it's as clear as an autographed copy.