Author Topic: Have you, your parents or grandparents switched קרייז - if yes, why?  (Read 5428 times)

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 17692
  • Total likes: 7952
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
The post by @imayid2 who said
Yes, my ancestors are exclusively chassidesh as far back as I can tell. My children are einiklach of the baal Shem, no connections to the gra.

yet claimed
Personally I like to know and understand the ideology behind why I’m not chassidesh.

got me thinking about shifts between קרייזן.

I don't know if there is any other קרייז with inflows from the most varied backgrounds as Lubavitch has. I would suspect that a vast majority of the inflows are ideological (i.e. a person got exposed to תורת חסידות חב"ד and decided to become "part" - which in my dictionary mainly means where they send their kids to get educated).

There are obviously shifts between קרייזן due to marriages, and sometimes due to environmental circumstances (the shul, school, yeshiva etc. that is in the area).

And then in our generation (possibly in prior generations too), there are those who went OTD, and either themselves or their descendants came back through a different קרייז.

I invite anyone who experienced a switch to share the reasons and/or experiences.

I didn't grow up in a Lubavitch home, was exposed through שיעורי תניא and the rest is history.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline yesitsme

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 5116
  • Total likes: 2238
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
ww2 shifted around many קרייזן

Offline DaasTora

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Nov 2022
  • Posts: 276
  • Total likes: 75
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
ww2 shifted around many קרייזן
+1 it made the bulk of Hungarians Satmar, many Russian Chernobyl to skver and a mix of Galician to bobov.

Offline DaasTora

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Nov 2022
  • Posts: 276
  • Total likes: 75
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
P.S. many Lakewooders are actually descended from Polish and Galician Chasidim.

Offline yesitsme

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 5116
  • Total likes: 2238
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
P.S. many Lakewooders are actually descended from Polish and Galician Chasidim.
is there a graphic of the percentage yidden killed per country/area?
["-"]

Offline DaasTora

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Nov 2022
  • Posts: 276
  • Total likes: 75
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
is there a graphic of the percentage yidden killed per country/area?
I never heard but it is said that Lithuanian Jewry was mostly wiped out by assimilation even before the war. Communism raged there as well.

Offline sillypainter

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2012
  • Posts: 2080
  • Total likes: 204
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
The post by @imayid2 who said
yet claimed
got me thinking about shifts between קרייזן.

I don't know if there is any other קרייז with inflows from the most varied backgrounds as Lubavitch has. I would suspect that a vast majority of the inflows are ideological (i.e. a person got exposed to תורת חסידות חב"ד and decided to become "part" - which in my dictionary mainly means where they send their kids to get educated).

There are obviously shifts between קרייזן due to marriages, and sometimes due to environmental circumstances (the shul, school, yeshiva etc. that is in the area).

And then in our generation (possibly in prior generations too), there are those who went OTD, and either themselves or their descendants came back through a different קרייז.

I invite anyone who experienced a switch to share the reasons and/or experiences.

I didn't grow up in a Lubavitch home, was exposed through שיעורי תניא and the rest is history.

If you're willing to share.....What did you grow up? You "look" and act and write like a through and through Chabdsker.

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 17692
  • Total likes: 7952
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
If you're willing to share.....What did you grow up? You "look" and act and write like a through and through Chabdsker.

Did I ever indicate that I grew up?  ;D

The reason why I might ‘"look" and act and write like a through and through Chabdsker Lubavitcher’ is that I was lucky enough to make the switch as a teenager, and got fully imerssed. But I will never be gezhe and my maternal lineage is as Litvish as it gets (including the ravages of the early 20th century, וד"ל).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 68917
  • Total likes: 17292
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Maternal grandparents are BT through Chabad, both born in CLE.
Paternal grandparents are MO, both born in CLE. 2 kids remained MO, 1 went yeshivish, and 1 went Lubavitch.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline TimT

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 22692
  • Total likes: 7191
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 17692
  • Total likes: 7952
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: Have you, your parents or grandparents switched קרייז - if yes, why?
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2023, 09:56:55 PM »
I would think that the rarest switch would be Lubavitch to other Chassidish. And while I know of people with Lubavitch roots that ended up (or their descendants did) elsewhere,  I know of none that did so based on ideology.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 17692
  • Total likes: 7952
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline tmendy226

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 1047
  • Total likes: 134
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Delta Diamond, Hertz PC, Flying Blue petroleum, SPG Gold, National Executive, Hilton Gold
Re: Have you, your parents or grandparents switched קרייז - if yes, why?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2023, 10:37:19 PM »
I would think that the rarest switch would be Lubavitch to other Chassidish. And while I know of people with Lubavitch roots that ended up (or their descendants did) elsewhere,  I know of none that did so based on ideology.

There are a few. Some that come to mind:

Pinchus Avrohom mayers - became belz
Shraga Zalmanov - amshinov and today is called the oppler rebbe

In the previous generation there are many ואי אפשר לפרטם but includes families of well known chasidim like
Noeh family - the great posek r’ Avrohom chaim and his son r’ boruch noeh who was also a chossid and among other things arranged the לוח כולל חבד. Most of their descendants aren’t Lubavitch.
Havlin family - descendants of r’ zalman Havlin
Many other Chabad yerushlami families.

Daughters of Lubavitcher chasidim a lot more like r’ meishke gurary daughter is married to a litvish rosh yeshiva, r’ Yankel and moshe Landa’s daughters, r’ Berel Rivkin daughter married Aharon shurin- litvish etc etc

Offline luckyluck

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 357
  • Total likes: 41
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Have you, your parents or grandparents switched קרייז - if yes, why?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2023, 11:05:46 PM »
while i didn't go thru any switch myself, my family is a unique melting pot

my paternal grandfather side was originally alsatian-yekke but around 1870 due to the german invasion they left, and ended up in algeria which back then was french territory. they embraced the minhag hamakom and became algerian sefardi
my paternal grandmother side is a mix of ukraine/russia and poland
my maternal grandfather is moroccan
my maternal grandmother is a mix of alsatian-yekke and poland

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 17692
  • Total likes: 7952
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: Have you, your parents or grandparents switched קרייז - if yes, why?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2023, 11:33:52 PM »
There are a few. Some that come to mind:

Pinchus Avrohom mayers - became belz

No comment.

Shraga Zalmanov - amshinov and today is called the oppler rebbe
Not familiar.

In the previous generation there are many ואי אפשר לפרטם but includes families of well known chasidim like
Noeh family - the great posek r’ Avrohom chaim and his son r’ boruch noeh who was also a chossid and among other things arranged the לוח כולל חבד. Most of their descendants aren’t Lubavitch.
Havlin family - descendants of r’ zalman Havlin
Many other Chabad yerushlami families.

Daughters of Lubavitcher chasidim a lot more like r’ meishke gurary daughter is married to a litvish rosh yeshiva, r’ Yankel and moshe Landa’s daughters, r’ Berel Rivkin daughter married Aharon shurin- litvish etc etc

Havlin - פרשה בפני עצמה, וד"ל.
All the rest a result of learning in other Yeshivos or lack of Lubavitch bochurim in those generations.
Some of R' Avrohom Chaim Noeh's grandchildren (through his daughters) ended up in Lubavitch.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 17692
  • Total likes: 7952
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: Have you, your parents or grandparents switched קרייז - if yes, why?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2023, 11:41:41 PM »
while i didn't go thru any switch myself, my family is a unique melting pot

my paternal grandfather side was originally alsatian-yekke but around 1870 due to the german invasion they left, and ended up in algeria which back then was french territory. they embraced the minhag hamakom and became algerian sefardi
my paternal grandmother side is a mix of ukraine/russia and poland
my maternal grandfather is moroccan
my maternal grandmother is a mix of alsatian-yekke and poland

Fascinating. The first thing that comes to mind when you tell the story of your paternal grandfather is the רא"ש.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline mevinyavin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2022
  • Posts: 1837
  • Total likes: 2286
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Laptop help/deal request template
  • Location: Yerushalayim
  • Programs: Windows 10 and 11 Home, Word/Excel/Publisher 2021, Wordweb, McGill English Dictionary of Rhyme, VLC, Torat Emet, 7-Zip, Lightshot, Calibre, FDM, FreeFileSync, Teracopy, Handbreak, Lightshot
Re: Have you, your parents or grandparents switched קרייז - if yes, why?
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2023, 04:28:19 AM »
Our family descends from the Riminover chasidus from my father's side. Still, we all look litvish on the outside, and it is a toss-up if we daven the nusach or not (I daven Berditchev k'diboi but none of my siblings do, because of their yeshiva education).
My mother's side is Russian but a generation or two before that they were in Germany. It is hard to get info from that side, so I don't know much.

A beautiful quote from the Rav (Rebbe? You should hear where he descends from!)
Quote from: Rav Yitzchok Berkovits
The Kuzari writes, “The posuk states, zeh Keli v’anvehu, Elokei Avi, v’aromimenhu – this is my G-d, and I will beautify Him; the G-d of my fathers, and I will raise Him up. First comes my G-d, and only after comes the G-d of my father.” Your personal relationship with Hashem - the way that you relate to him, and the way that you serve him - is more important than the way that your father relates to Him. True, the basis of Emunah is mesorah, the transmission of Torah from father to son. However, once you have utilized the mesorah and arrived at a relationship with Hashem, it is your personal relationship with Him.
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18423
  • Total likes: 14594
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Have you, your parents or grandparents switched קרייז - if yes, why?
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2023, 08:34:00 AM »
Paternal Grandfather: Family was originally from Dorohobitch, they became wealthy from the oil sands and most moved to Vienna. A great grandfather (I have been unable to trace exactly who) felt the family was getting too "modern" and moved to the Chust/Muncacz/Ungvar area and had a yeshiva near Chust.

Paternal Grandmother: Descendent of the Apta Rov, and the Noam Elimelech. Family from Banihad Hungary and Bistritz Romania. Have some 3rd cousins who have chassideshe titles.

Maternal Grandfather: Born in the USA early 1900s.

Maternal Grandmother: Brought over from Poland to the USA as a little baby early 1900s

Wife's side:
Paternal Grandfather: Yekke from Nuremburg
Paternal Grandmother: Yekke from Franfurt, was on the kindertransport with one sister and the rest of the family didn't make it. We calculated that those two girls now have about 1000 descendants KA"H

Maternal Grandfather: Born in Canada family originally from Poland. Some rebbishe blood there but don't remember who.
Maternal Grandmother: Born in Hungary was on the last train out as a child and was raised in USA.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 08:37:01 AM by aygart »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8298
  • Total likes: 2744
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Have you, your parents or grandparents switched קרייז - if yes, why?
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2023, 09:24:15 AM »
Most of Lakewood does not come from Lithuania.

My paternal grandparents were both born in Galicia. My grandfather was born in Pshevorsk and my grandmother in Dzikov.

My grandfather had 2 brothers, one went to EY after the war and wasn't frum, the other found a rebbi in the DP camps who was Lubavitch, he lived in CH until he was niftar last year. My grandfather was an "ehliche yid". He didn't have a beard or peyos, sent his kids to YOB and Torah Temimah. He was very close with Rabbi Landau (Veretzky) and he built the current shul building in Flatbush.

My maternal grandparents were born in the US, but they come from Polish families.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline DaasTora

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Nov 2022
  • Posts: 276
  • Total likes: 75
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Have you, your parents or grandparents switched קרייז - if yes, why?
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2023, 09:59:03 AM »
Most of Lakewood does not come from Lithuania.
P.S. many Lakewooders are actually descended from Polish and Galician Chasidim.