Author Topic: Boy was found BH 08 - 21  (Read 5180 times)

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67194
  • Total likes: 15959
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Boy was found BH 08 - 21
« Reply #60 on: August 12, 2021, 10:38:40 AM »
Odds of there being accountability without the administration feeling true financial pressure is slim. My son is same age as this boy. He has 27 boys in his bunk! (Different camp IINM).

If the administration has to deal with a lawsuit, they will force the head staff to implement rules that they'll never deal with it again. Otherwise, they can have protocols but rarely enforced. Most parents wouldnt sue, so the cycle continues
Only a matter of time then until a tragedy c"v.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 30270
  • Total likes: 7160
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Boy was found BH 08 - 21
« Reply #61 on: August 12, 2021, 10:38:59 AM »
Odds of there being accountability without the administration feeling true financial pressure is slim. My son is same age as this boy. He has 27 boys in his bunk! (Different camp IINM).

If the administration has to deal with a lawsuit, they will force the head staff to implement rules that they'll never deal with it again. Otherwise, they can have protocols but rarely enforced. Most parents wouldnt sue, so the cycle continues

What people miss out on is that optimal/minimal-friction protocols make for a smoother camp experience overall, for the staff as well.

What's your kid's bunk staff arrangement like? In my children's camp this summer I wouldn't for a moment trust the teenage staff on their own, but every bunk has a counselor who is an experienced/intuitive educator and married with their own children, even without protocols that offers a modicum of safety.
100% of Likes will be donated to support our brothers and sisters in Eretz Yisrael

Offline whacked1

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 2506
  • Total likes: 457
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: Boy was found BH 08 - 21
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2021, 10:49:10 AM »
What people miss out on is that optimal/minimal-friction protocols make for a smoother camp experience overall, for the staff as well.

What's your kid's bunk staff arrangement like? In my children's camp this summer I wouldn't for a moment trust the teenage staff on their own, but every bunk has a counselor who is an experienced/intuitive educator and married with their own children, even without protocols that offers a modicum of safety.
Very hard for a day camp when they are going on trips every (or every other) day. when I was head staff in camp (it was overnight camp) this was our protocol for trips.

One person ran the trip (usually head counselor) > One head staff member per bus, equipped with rosters, first aid kit etc w/ a number count (every kid had a sticker with his name and number) > Three bunks per bus.
Counselor takes attendance of his bunk, okays it to head staff member, head staff members goes through a number count right before pulling out (every kid yells out his number in order, 1,2,3 etc) and then they leave. Its doable when this isnt daily and kids are older.


What's your kid's bunk staff arrangement like? In my children's camp this summer I wouldn't for a moment trust the teenage staff on their own, but every bunk has a counselor who is an experienced/intuitive educator and married with their own children, even without protocols that offers a modicum of safety.
One counselor and 4 JCs. Considering my son doesnt know any of their names, not sure how good the supervision is....

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 30K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 30270
  • Total likes: 7160
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 79
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Boy was found BH 08 - 21
« Reply #63 on: August 12, 2021, 10:54:39 AM »
Very hard for a day camp when they are going on trips every (or every other) day. when I was head staff in camp (it was overnight camp) this was our protocol for trips.

One person ran the trip (usually head counselor) > One head staff member per bus, equipped with rosters, first aid kit etc w/ a number count (every kid had a sticker with his name and number) > Three bunks per bus.
Counselor takes attendance of his bunk, okays it to head staff member, head staff members goes through a number count right before pulling out (every kid yells out his number in order, 1,2,3 etc) and then they leave. Its doable when this isnt daily and kids are older.

Sounds very reasonable, and likely doable at daycamp as well. Another good measure (on top of this) is to split the group (of 27 in your case) to 6-7 kids assigned to each JC, so even before roll call, a JC might notice that a kid wandered off, or the kid would know to ask that specific JC (even if he doesn't know his name) for permission/escort to go to the bathroom etc.
100% of Likes will be donated to support our brothers and sisters in Eretz Yisrael

Offline Shmulie

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1531
  • Total likes: 526
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Boy was found BH 08 - 21
« Reply #64 on: August 12, 2021, 10:54:57 AM »
BH that he was found!

But there needs to be more accountability from camps.

I was in summer camp as a 3 year old in Boro Park when my parents noticed that out of the blue I was much more scared of things and needed to know exactly where we were going and if we knew how to get there.

My mother talked to the camp and they said, well we weren't going to mention it, but now that you asked, we did accidentally leave your son in the park and noticed it when we got back to camp without him...

I wonder how common this is?

I'm sorry that happened to you, it sounds incredibly traumatizing.

The group I was with had a couple counselors from the camp and from what I understand they realized he was missing before leaving the park. I think by doing a headcount by the busses.

Offline Euclid

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 4736
  • Total likes: 5768
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: Boy was found BH 08 - 21
« Reply #65 on: August 12, 2021, 11:08:06 AM »
BH that he was found!

But there needs to be more accountability from camps.

I was in summer camp as a 3 year old in Boro Park when my parents noticed that out of the blue I was much more scared of things and needed to know exactly where we were going and if we knew how to get there.

My mother talked to the camp and they said, well we weren't going to mention it, but now that you asked, we did accidentally leave your son in the park and noticed it when we got back to camp without him...

I wonder how common this is?
Fascinating, considering your wanderlust.

Online avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8067
  • Total likes: 2584
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Boy was found BH 08 - 21
« Reply #66 on: August 12, 2021, 11:20:29 AM »
I'm sorry that happened to you, it sounds incredibly traumatizing.

The group I was with had a couple counselors from the camp and from what I understand they realized he was missing before leaving the park. I think by doing a headcount by the busses.
This makes sense. They realized he was missing, but there was no use in keeping the whole camp waiting while they searched for him.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Shmulie

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1531
  • Total likes: 526
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Boy was found BH 08 - 21
« Reply #67 on: August 12, 2021, 11:29:56 AM »
This makes sense. They realized he was missing, but there was no use in keeping the whole camp waiting while they searched for him.

The counselors I spoke to said they left a couple counselors behind to look for him

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 16952
  • Total likes: 13513
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Boy was found BH 08 - 21
« Reply #68 on: August 12, 2021, 11:47:50 AM »
The unfortunate reality is that in camps the foot soldiers are often teenagers who can't be realistically trusted to be on top of such a thing on their own. Their higher up is oftentimes a single head counselor responsible for dozens of kids (sometimes in more than one physical location at the same time), and the camp directors are delegating this responsibility to those beneath them.

If someone with experience and wisdom could devise the optimal/least-friction system for accounting for everyone in such situations (incl. dealing with medical emergencies ch"v, kid going to the bathroom, non-urgent injuries, etc) and offer it to camps free of charge, it could mitigate the potential for such mishaps.

Many day camps in Lakewood have married men as counselors and the teenaged bochurim are at most JCs.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online TimT

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 22218
  • Total likes: 6677
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile

Offline WonderingYid

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2021
  • Posts: 1445
  • Total likes: 250
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York
Re: Boy was found BH 08 - 21
« Reply #70 on: December 21, 2021, 07:42:14 PM »
BH that he was found!

But there needs to be more accountability from camps.

I was in summer camp as a 3 year old in Boro Park when my parents noticed that out of the blue I was much more scared of things and needed to know exactly where we were going and if we knew how to get there.

My mother talked to the camp and they said, well we weren't going to mention it, but now that you asked, we did accidentally leave your son in the park and noticed it when we got back to camp without him...

I wonder how common this is?
Don't hold your breath. The things I've seen...

Online S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7440
  • Total likes: 3881
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Boy was found BH 08 - 21
« Reply #71 on: August 15, 2023, 01:05:17 AM »
Fascinating, considering your wanderlust.
Well, he is extraordinarily certain of where hes going and how hes going to get there..
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.