How To Behave, When To Accuse, Bad Media, And More

[imayid2]

Now playing devil's advocate. What didn't the man right in front of him grab the child? Why didn't he walk out with the man right in front of him instead of the child?

Probably because a grown man would laugh in his face and tell him it’s an over the top stringency (whether or not it’s true) whereas a child would more willingly oblige.

[TimT]

Why doesn't YWN post the mother's name and picture?

Please use sarcasm emoji

[CountValentine]

Probably because a grown man would laugh in his face and tell him it’s an over the top stringency (whether or not it’s true) whereas a child would more willingly oblige.

I hope you are not his lawyer.
GUILTY!!! 

[TimT]

including portions of so-called “frum media,” which has no limits on what it will report and won’t bother doing a modicum of investigation. The only “creeps” in this story are the reporters and news outlets who couldn’t run fast enough to release a story without knowing the facts.

And let’s not forget everybody all over social media.

And then we cry & wonder about the צרות that befall us.

[jj1000]

I hope you are not his lawyer.
GUILTY!!! 

Meh, I don't think there is a minimum age of consent for walking across a room "holding hands"

Another thing to keep in mind, is according to his storyline, he likely didn't look the mother in the eyes because he tries to never look at woman.

Strange concepts for someone not familiar to understand.

[aygart]

First of all, who said anything about waiting hours? How long does is take to look at camera footage? I'm not expecting the family to do this on their own. They didn't call the police directly in the first place. But once shomrim is there, what exactly is the point of calling them instead of the police if they didn't bother trying to see what was going on and just called the police themselves?

And second of all, the guy was gone already anyway. The only reason they 'found' him so quick is because people knew who he is and where he would be (in seder).
I hate to call you out like this, but that's classic @aygart right there. Maybe go watch the full video before discussing it?Don't know which is which, but I saw elsewhere that one is the mother and one is an aunt.
Don't put words in my mouth.

What do you think the minimum time would be to get access to and watch the video?

Your complaint  is against Shomrim? They were called without police? You need to be an idiot to call only them if you really think it was a kidnap attempt.

I thought I wrote this very clearly that it was not from watching the video

Some are making it seem like the mother had difficulty getting her child back from him. If that is true then it still can.

[skyguy918]

Your complaint  is against Shomrim? They were called without police? You need to be an idiot to call only them if you really think it was a kidnap attempt.

You're butchering the timeline. That's exactly what happened. Shomrim was called alone. And then they told the family to call the police
I'm wrong, sorry. At least according the the original YWN story. I retract my original comment, which was based on my mistake here.

I thought I wrote this very clearly that it was not from watching the video

Yes, that's the point. You comment all the time without reading/seeing what people are talking about. Your disclaimers don't help much when your comments are colored by that lack of reading/seeing.

[drosenberg88429]

Now playing devil's advocate. What didn't the man right in front of him grab the child? Why didn't he walk out with the man right in front of him instead of the child?

Grab? Nobody grabbed anyone that I can see. What's the difference? Healthy people don't see every time someone pats someone on the back, shakes hands with them, or gently puts a hand on their shoulder while talking to them for a second as a molestation attempt or attempted kidnap. The child didn't seem uncomfortable in the slightest, and seemed to be fully acquiescent.

[jj1000]

You need to be an idiot to call only them if you really think it was a kidnap attempt.

$20 says that's exactly what the shomrim personal said...

Assuming that is the case, not sure how they did anything wrong here.

I hope they have protocol for what to do with different calls. And if someone calls and says my kid was just kidnapped I hope they tell her to call the police before they investigate.

[jj1000]

You comment all the time without reading/seeing what people are talking about. Your disclaimers don't help much when your comments are colored by that lack of reading/seeing.

Warning: This may be popcorn and today is Friday, but personal attacks are not allowed on DDF.

[imayid2]

. And if someone calls and says my kid was just kidnapped I hope they tell her to call the police before they investigate.

I’m curious what the guy told the child, and how that affected the assessment of the situation.

[skyguy918]

Warning: This may be popcorn and today is Friday, but personal attacks are not allowed on DDF.

I've read a lot of popcorn threads here on DDF over the many years I'm on here, with a lot of heated interactions, and I find it hilarious that this is what you choose to give a warning about. It's not an attack. It's a frustration with a particular way of posting.

[drosenberg88429]

To a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[CountValentine]

Everyone keeps saying watch the video. The video makes it worse for him not better.

[drosenberg88429]

Does Flatbush shomrim have any legitimate rabbinical backing and support, in general?

[sddd]

Time for someone to open a frum Jewish news site with high journalistic standards.

While I personally strongly dislike YWN, I do wonder how much blame to allocate them as opposed to, to some extent, their standards reflecting our communities'. We, do after all support them overwhelmingly by patronizing their website daily (hourly?). Obviously it is a monopoly to some extent, but I don't know if that is the entire story. Ideally, I'd like to imagine our community on average is more the WSJ/Bloomberg/Economist level of high(er)brow journals but maybe on average we're closer to the NY POST. Unfortunately, many of us do love the sensationalism and drama engendered by these alarming stories and headlines (and forwarding/discussing the hock at coffee room etc).
Not exactly a parallel, but I do recall being sad when they discontinued the Jewish Observer and thought it reflected poorly that the community couldn't support a well written magazine like that.

[imayid2]

Everyone keeps saying watch the video. The video makes it worse for him not better.

Maybe that depends if you understand the nuances/sensitivities of this specific community?

[jj1000]

Everyone keeps saying watch the video. The video makes it worse for him not better.

I don't think so. If it was he said she said it would be worse for him.

This has a clear video of what happened, and the DA knows a jury isn't finding a guilty verdict of kidnapping based on that. There is a reason charges were lowered almost immediately, because of the video...

[YitzyS]

I think this story contains some amount of poor judgement, but not nearly as much as the tremendous amount of tragedy here. Based on the video, it would seem that while each person could've been more prudent, nobody acted too out of line.

Some tragedies happen because Hashem wanted them to, not so much because anyone is at fault.

The yungerman sought to do a simple 3-second walk through, not thinking that it was anything to be concerned about. Keep in mind, that he likely does not read Mishpacha Magazine or peruse DDF, so he likely does not realize the super-sensitive mentality that exists now in these matters. The mother saw something that looked in her justifiably-sensitive mind as a travesty, and as Rabbi Lankry pointed out, she is within her rights to freak out.

I don't think anyone can really point at any of those parties and declare that they are deserving of the nightmare they fell into. On the other hand...

Someone once asked a rov to give insight into a famous argument between two prominent gedolim. (I think it may have been the Satmar Rov and Rav Moshe Feinstein.) The rov answered with a clever quip: If you look in Shmonah Esrei, you will see that although both gedolim are in the right - one is the "הָשִֽׁיבָה שׁוֹפְטֵֽינוּ" and the other is the "עַל הַצַּדִּיקִים" - it's the ravel rousers who come in between them that are the "וְלַמַּלְשִׁינִים".

The yungerman - poor judgement and all - did not intend to cause any harm. The mother was responding with her natural instincts. But the media, which just needed to stir things up for their bottom line, is the וְלַמַּלְשִׁינִים that are exacerbating the situation IMO.

[CountValentine]

Maybe that depends if you understand the nuances/sensitivities of this specific community?

I am talking from a police perspective. In a trial you can try and explain the nuances/sensitivities.