How To Behave, When To Accuse, Bad Media, And More

[whacked1]

Looked like one hand lightly on shoulder to me. The other hand was carrying things.

Look at these pics. #1 is stopping him. #2 is woman is probably thinking wth. This doesnt seem light touching

[imayid2]

Suggestions?

Falsely accused? (Including the question mark)

[dasmo801]

Touching someone's child without their permission is an arbitrary line?

Its an arbitrary line because there is no definition as to what the line is intended to demarcate.
I think we can mostly all agree that he crossed the line of savvy conduct in today's hyper aware society. Anything more than that, I have serious doubts. 

[CountValentine]

Its an arbitrary line because there is no definition as to what the line is intended to demarcate.

How about this for the line. You don't stop a child coming out of a room, whisper in his ear, put your arm around him and then start walking toward the exit.

That is exactly what the video showed. Why he did it, did he have permission, did the boy understand what he wanted and a ton of other questions the video does not answer.

[yungermanchik]

Suggestions?

Innocent interactions interpreted insidiously

[yuneeq]

Suggestions?

Dealing with Suspicion

[jj1000]

How To Behave, When To Accuse, Bad Media, And More

Open to edits.

[Yehuda57]

Never touch a child!
Never give a kid a high five!
Never shake a kid's hand good shabbos!
Never help guide a kid through a crowd with a hand on the shoulder!

We've gone from instilling safety precautions to instilling fear.

Which is it, a stranger walking a kid out a room, or grooming?

The video shows me someone with absolutely awful social skills. He'd rather ask a child than an adult. The mother freaks out and he clearly wasn't able to explain himself. And probably another dozen things he could have done better

But now that we know that, can we stop freaking out about adults *touching* a kid on the shoulder in full view of a dozen adults?

[yuneeq]

One tip of advice - many have stated that "cultural differences" enable us to understand this situation differently. And while that is correct, it's points at a larger issue. There is no mitzvah to remain ignorant of what the world considers inappropriate behavior and isn't against our Torah. There's no mitzvah to get into situations where you will be under suspicion.

We have to get of our bubble, and spread awareness to everyone, no matter how much of a bubble they live in.

Here's a simple rule that will help people avoid pitfalls: apply harchakos for children just as you would for a woman.

[CountValentine]

We have to get of our bubble, and spread awareness to everyone, no matter how much of a bubble they live in.

Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

[EliJelly]

IMHO here is how the situation should have been handled in real time. The person should have been brought in for questioning. If he refused, then he should have been arrested.

+100

We're losing the forest for the trees here. You can't blame the mother for freaking out, in her mind she saw her son almost being abducted and she reacted accordingly. You can't blame the yungerman either for what he have done, apparently he is a heiliga yungerman who's extremely cautious with women etc. and likely not so aware of today's crazy world we live in. We might have done things differently but we all know people of that sort, repeating excuse me for the few standing women in the hallway blocking his way out was not his first option, ok. *

But why did it come so quickly to a full blown arrest and perp walk without asking him first the basic question, why he touched and walked with that boy. I'm sure if Shomrim would give him the time and space to talk they would break out in laughter how this was a nothingburger almost turning into a full blown kinapping scene, and they would be able to convince the parents and the police that it was just a misunderstanding that occurred.

*(do separate entrances into your shul when you're lucky to have such choshiva mispallelim )

[yerushabubby]

One thing I don't understand - by the time shomrim were called in, the child was with his mother, with no harm done.  At that point, was there any reason to believe that there was any danger, any reason to call the police without first trying to clarify what happened?  Why didn't anyone think to ask the child why he was walking out with a stranger?  That probably would have cleared things up, to a large extent.

[yesitsme]

would of could of should of, this is what happened, next

[elimmm]

It amazes me how people can air, on a public forum, their feelings about a fellow, frum person
Its one thing if you think the anonymous mother was correct, or want to comment on how shomrim dealt with the situation...

Is there a known heter to discuss your opinion on someone's social skill set? or insulting someone out because you disagree with how he dealt with a halachic situation?
After all everyone agrees he was trying to do the right thing. No one has suspicions (any longer) regarding his intent, and everyone knows his identity, so where is the basic respect for a frum person, let alone a talmid chchm?
Do we really publicly post disparaging comments about a specific person that might be hurtful to his family if they end up reading this (i'm assuming this fellow doesnt surf the web!)

I chose to post this here, because most ppl are "primarily" here for DD related material, and readers of YWN will not care what I have to say. Either way, I think people ought to think before posting L"H or Mtz"ShmRa

[EliJelly]

would of could of should of, this is what happened, next

I mean the yungerman who was so badly ashamed, arrested, and besmirched isn't your father, son or husband, right?

People do view what happened as a very sad incident and trying to figure out what "could have should have" be done differently so this doesn't happen again in the future.

[LNS]

what was he doing there in the first place
from the video it doesn't seem like he belongs there or that it is his type of crowd

[yesitsme]

what was he doing there in the first place
from the video it doesn't seem like he belongs there or that it is his type of crowd

huh

[S209]

Right now, Googling the name will bring up ONLY negative stories, but ZERO Jewish sites named him.

Idk. I get this when I google his name:

“Brooklyn man allegedly burns woman alive“

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[LNS]

huh

he seems uncomfortable
no one acknowledges him nor does he greet anyone 
the mother who obviously knows people there and is socially involved has no idea who he his
and  from the looks of  it he is uncomfortable with a mixed crowd while the other men are walking around freely

so what was he doing there in the first place?

[yitzgar]

he seems uncomfortable
no one acknowledges him nor does he greet anyone 
the mother who obviously knows people there and is socially involved has no idea who he his
and  from the looks of  it he is uncomfortable with a mixed crowd while the other men are walking around freely

so what was he doing there in the first place?

Did you follow the story at all? He was learning in the shul. There was a bris there as well and these women and the boy were there for the bris