Author Topic: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc  (Read 2455 times)

Offline dm123

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DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« on: February 01, 2023, 01:09:35 PM »
Perhaps study after study show that black young men are stopped at a higher rate

@CountValentine Please share some of the "study after study".

Below is the Wikipedia page my title references, seem to be some studies there.

Quote
"Driving while black" (DWB) is a sardonic description of racial profiling of African-American motor vehicle drivers. It implies that a motorist may be stopped by a police officer largely because of racial bias rather than any apparent violation of traffic law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black

@mods perhaps the discussion in Minorities open season from
Is this the right thread? Seems more of a general problem of police brutality.
until
This is the number one hot issue in the news. It is a horrific event. For those who feel it only involves police brutality it is one of the worst cases seen. Someone posted this in the police brutality thread if one even exists?
can be moved to this thread with a post there that the Nichols case being open season is contested see here for details?

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Offline yesitsme

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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2023, 07:24:03 PM »
i was just pulled  by a trooper for the first time
and i couldn't find the picture of reb shayla
["-"]

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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2023, 08:50:59 PM »
i was just pulled  by a trooper for the first time
and i couldn't find the picture of reb shayla
And?

Offline dm123

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Offline jfish227

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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2023, 10:41:41 PM »
Thanks! Hope to read the underlying studies.
Seems the first and last one are based on this study from May 2020
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-0858-1
IMO not very convincing data and while it is true that they had many obstacles in compiling the raw data there are too many theories that are easily countered

Offline justaregularguy

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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2023, 10:49:05 PM »
i was just pulled  by a trooper for the first time
and i couldn't find the picture of reb shayla
my friend was visiting South Africa once and got pulled over by a cop. He hadn’t done anything wrong and the cop was basically trying to get something out of him maybe he recognized him as a foreigner. The cop asked him “what did you bring me from america?” My friend pulls out a wallet size picture of the Lubavitch rebbe and says this is a big rabbi in america and gives it him. The cop lets him go  ;D
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline yesitsme

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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2023, 01:20:07 AM »
And?
left me with a printed warning for careless driving
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Offline dm123

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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2023, 08:22:52 AM »
Seems the first and last one are based on this study from May 2020
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-0858-1

I glanced at the first study and the authors seem to think it's a start to looking at if it's an issue but we need better/standardized data to be able to reach solid conclusions.

Here are the facts:
Quote
we found that black drivers were, on average, stopped more often than white drivers.
Quote
For Hispanic drivers, however, we found that stop rates were lower than for white drivers
Quote
We note that these results are consistent with self-reported stop rates by white, black and Hispanic drivers who participated in the national PPCS1.

And according to the authors, what this means:
Quote
These numbers are a starting point for understanding racial disparities in traffic stops, but they do not, per se, provide strong evidence of racially disparate treatment. In particular, per-capita stop rates do not account for possible race-specific differences in driving behaviour, including amount of time spent on the road and adherence to traffic laws.



IMO not very convincing data
I guess you read the study?  ;)
Quote
they do not, per se, provide strong evidence of racially disparate treatment.

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2023, 08:31:53 AM »
my friend was visiting South Africa once and got pulled over by a cop. He hadn’t done anything wrong and the cop was basically trying to get something out of him maybe he recognized him as a foreigner. The cop asked him “what did you bring me from america?” My friend pulls out a wallet size picture of the Lubavitch rebbe and says this is a big rabbi in america and gives it him. The cop lets him go  ;D
best bribe the cop ever got!

Offline yuneeq

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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2023, 08:46:25 AM »
How often do cops see the person before they pull them over? I’ve gotten pulled over on the highway, are they really catching a good view of me beforehand or is it the radar selecting me?

If they aren’t getting a good view, are they stereotyping based on cars that blacks topically drive?

Is there a disparity in blacks getting pulled over for traffic stops where the cop likely saw the driver beforehand?
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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2023, 08:47:25 AM »
I grew up in a 98% white village. The village was sued because of racial profiling. Almost 50% of the traffic stops (tickets) were against blacks. They came up with all type of reasons why that was, but it did not fly. I am going to guess this happened all across the country. Maybe this was just an isolated incident?  :)
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2023, 09:01:12 AM »
I grew up in a 98% white village. The village was sued because of racial profiling. Almost 50% of the traffic stops (tickets) were against blacks. They came up with all type of reasons why that was, but it did not fly. I am going to guess this happened all across the country. Maybe this was just an isolated incident?  :)

When you grew up there was definitely more racism and/or discrimination, I wouldn’t think it is isolated.
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Offline S209

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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2023, 09:19:30 AM »
I grew up in a 98% white village. The village was sued because of racial profiling. Almost 50% of the traffic stops (tickets) were against blacks. They came up with all type of reasons why that was, but it did not fly. I am going to guess this happened all across the country. Maybe this was just an isolated incident?  :)
I think we can all agree things are different now than when you grew up (although I agree with you that anyone pretending there isn’t rampant racism is either lying or a fool).
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2023, 09:21:45 AM »
When you grew up there was definitely more racism and/or discrimination, I wouldn’t think it is isolated.

On a somewhat related note, watching Dahmer recently and reading up about it, was eye-opening about the level of discrimination that blacks and minorities faced that is non-obvious or talked about often, like an extreme apathy and lack of trust towards blacks. If not for constant discrimination Dahmer would've been caught early on, yet still hard to imagine that level of widespread discrimination is happening nowadays.
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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2023, 09:27:17 AM »
I think we can all agree things are different now than when you grew up (although I agree with you that anyone pretending there isn’t rampant racism is either lying or a fool).
I agree they are different now but is it better now or just not as blatant? 
How about your own situation as a minority?
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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2023, 09:32:20 AM »
I agree they are different now but is it better now or just not as blatant? 
How about your own situation as a minority?
Better, for sure. The youngest generation is much more tolerant of others as we didn’t grew up with it being a thing. Of course, along with general societal tolerance came an intolerance for blatant hatred so that positive effect came about as well.

I assume better than when my parents grew up, but Jews have never had it as bad as Blacks in America, not even close.
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Offline jye

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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2023, 09:35:47 AM »
Here’s the non PC version. Black people are  more likely than whites to have been incarcerated, to be unemployed, to not be at grade level proficiency in school, to lack an intact family unit, to have a lower IQ than the average white person, and to be a victim of a crime perpetrated by their own race, particularly homicide. Is is all due to racial discrimination?

It’s important to sort out what can legitimately be attributed to racism. A group of teens driving a souped up tinted car with loud base blaring will get far more attention from a cop than a middle aged driver of a Camry. The studies you cited have a 20% differential in stop rates. Is there a 20% differential in vehicle choice and other factors? Comparing apples to apples is necessary to get meaningful data.

Some profiling is also justified in my opinion. I will be honest: when I walk past the projects at 2am and a couple of young black teens with grungy clothing are sauntering behind me I’m going to tend to look over my shoulder and feel more tension than if it were a couple of middle aged men in suits and ties, and infinitely more than if it were women. This is not illogical bias. It is a street smart sense from decades of experience growing up in an urban high crime area. Anyone who tells you they feel different is straight out lying.

A cop who pulls over a middle aged man driving his family in a mini van is justified in pegging the driver as a low flight risk and a low risk to the officer himself vs a single person driving a neon lit car with music blaring. It’s a legitimate threat assessment. It is absurd to expect the cop to have an equal level of tension and apprehension in both scenarios. One would have to observe the interaction in IDENTICAL scenarios to isolate the factors and get a legitimate sense of the extent of racial bias.

There is no question there is extant racial bias even in 2023 but the extent is only determinable when isolating disparate factors and strictly comparing apples to apples.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2023, 09:53:36 AM by jye »

Offline yuneeq

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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2023, 09:42:23 AM »
How about your own situation as a minority?

My parents and grandparents had it worse than us growing up, but so do my children.
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Re: DWB/Police Profiling & Brutality/Racism/Etc
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2023, 09:48:14 AM »
My parents and grandparents had it worse than us growing up, but so do my children.
You believe it is worse for your children that you? So, in the last 20 years or so it has gotten worse?
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