Death of Nazi Sympathizers and other Repugnant Individuals

[EliJelly]

The only discussion to had is if one believes theirs is the one true religion and all others are fake.

Then you must ask yourself if you have any idea what religion is really all about.
Even when one knows the answer we still must be tolerant of other religions.

[CountValentine]

Then you must ask yourself if you have any idea what religion is really all about.
Even when one knows the answer we still must be tolerant of other religions.

That is a nice PC answer, but it isn't reality. I am the most tolerant respectful person you will ever meet when it comes to religion. 

[drosenberg88429]

The only discussion to had is if one believes theirs is the one true religion and all others are fake.

We do believe that. (Don't worry, though. We aren't actively proselytizing to outsiders or trying to recruit new members. We also aren't trying to harass outsiders that have other beliefs.)

[CountValentine]

We do believe that.

...and that is fine. I get a laugh when I see "I have no issue discussing this in a civil way, as we have been doing for years". How does that the discussion start off? I am right and that will never change, and you are wrong?

That is every thread I am in. I am the wrong guy.

[imayid2]

...and that is fine. I get a laugh when I see "I have no issue discussing this in a civil way, as we have been doing for years". How does that the discussion start off? I am right and that will never change, and you are wrong?

That is every thread I am in. I am the wrong guy.

Depends on what’s being discussed of course. Not everything boils down to dogma.

[CountValentine]

Not everything boils down to dogma.

...but it is.
There is a reason every thread will turn to religion. 

[drosenberg88429]

...and that is fine. I get a laugh when I see "I have no issue discussing this in a civil way, as we have been doing for years". How does that the discussion start off? I am right and that will never change, and you are wrong?

That is every thread I am in. I am the wrong guy.

Most threads aren't straight up explicit religious issues or beliefs. (Although as a general rule, nothing to do with DDF or religion - you're pretty unlikely to change anyone's mind in a debate, and particularly on an Internet forum or comment section. If that's the goal, one is generally better off saving their breath, iinm. I actually think DDF is fairly decent in this regard, and discussions are relatively high quality.) But yeah, chances are that we're not ceasing to believe in our religion over others. Why does that make you the wrong guy (unless it's an open religious doctrine)? It's not worth understanding another viewpoint, even if you're not going to change your mind to agree with it? I don't think we're going to change any of your religious beliefs either.

I believe in the freedom of speech, which means that while I may not agree with what someone says, I support and believe in fighting for his right to say it (unless it poses a threat to one's right to life, liberty, and safety). I think that this is ultimately mutually beneficial.

[drosenberg88429]

...but it is.
There is a reason every thread will turn to religion. 

I think there's a difference between religion coloring ones perspective, and something being an open and explicit religious doctrine. You'll notice that that's a tremendous amount of religious debate and discussion amongst the members here, even though they ascribe to the same religion. They don't all think the others we completely wrong and follow the wrong religion. Many things are fairly ambiguous and have multiple judicial and philosophical opinions.

[YitzyS]

...and that is fine. I get a laugh when I see "I have no issue discussing this in a civil way, as we have been doing for years". How does that the discussion start off? I am right and that will never change, and you are wrong?

That is every thread I am in. I am the wrong guy.

I am willing to discuss all subject that may touch on religion, but I am not willing to discuss religion. Because in that regard I am right and that will never change. So indeed, when I was saying that "I have no issue discussing this in a civil way," I was NOT referring to religion. I was referring to the perceived immorality of certain things. And even in that regard, I made it clear that I believe unequivocally that I see it as moral, because Hashem said it. The discussion is about details and how to understand things. Note, I did not use the word "debate." I am not looking to be corrected on the core beliefs. That does not preclude a civil discussion in how to understand morality and other nuances.

[YitzyS]

That is a nice PC answer, but it isn't reality. I am the most tolerant respectful person you will ever meet when it comes to religion. 

It is reality. I believe that every other religion is fake. However, Jewish people in general are VERY tolerant and respectful to people who believe in other religions, perhaps just as much as you are.

Simple proof: When was the last time you heard that a religious Jew held up a member of another religion by gunpoint? When was the last time you heard that a Jew killed a member of a different religion? Did you ever see a story in the Chicago Tribune about a Jew yelling at a member of another religion "Dirty Gentile" on the train?

Remember: tolerant does NOT mean being willing to renege on our own beliefs. It just means that I am respectful to others even though I think their beliefs are wrong.

[YitzyS]

Genuinely curious if there is a source for this ”preemptive” line of reasoning being repeated here.

Sorry, I thought that the comma made it clear that it was an added point, not the justification. The justification is that Hashem said it. As an aside, if we don't do it, they would do it to us first.

[CountValentine]

I am willing to discuss all subject that may touch on religion, but I am not willing to discuss religion.

Is your views on abortion your religious views? If they are one in the same, then aren't you discussing religion?

[YitzyS]

Is your views on abortion your religious views? If they are one in the same, then aren't you discussing religion?

I think that ALL morality has to be dictated by G-d, and I've said this already specifically about abortion, in the post I linked above.

As I've written before,

[CountValentine]

Simple proof: When was the last time you heard that a religious Jew held up a member of another religion by gunpoint? When was the last time you heard that a Jew killed a member of a different religion? Did you ever see a story in the Chicago Tribune about a Jew yelling at a member of another religion "Dirty Gentile" on the train?

When is the last time you heard of a Catholic refusing to go into a synagogue? Would you go into a Catholic church?

[CountValentine]

I think that ALL morality has to be dictated by G-d, and I've said this already specifically about abortion, in the post I linked above.

If you discuss abortion then you are discussing religion, no?

[YitzyS]

When is the last time you heard of a Catholic refusing to go into a synagogue? Would you go into a Catholic church?

That has nothing to do with not being personally tolerant. It is halachically prohibited for a Jew to enter a church. I follow halacha.

Again, being tolerant does not mean compromising on my religious standards. It just means that I still respect you as a person even though you don't believe in my religion.

[YitzyS]

If you discuss abortion then you are discussing religion, no?

I was discussing something that I learn from religion.

Throughout history, Jews have been a beacon of morality to other nations. Because Jews can look into the Torah and learn to understand what G-d does, and being the G-d is merciful, we can learn what is considered mercy by looking into the Torah. Sharing that with others, while it is a direct result of religion, it is not a bone-on-bone religious debate.

[CountValentine]

That has nothing to do with not being personally tolerant. It is halachically prohibited for a Jew to enter a church. I follow halacha.

Again, being tolerant does not mean compromising on my religious standards. It just means that I still respect you as a person even though you don't believe in my religion.

You believe I worship idols, correct? If so, I should take that as a sign of respect?

[Yehuda57]

When is the last time you heard of a Catholic refusing to go into a synagogue? Would you go into a Catholic church?

How do you square that understanding with a Jew being able to go into a mosque?

[EliJelly]

You believe I worship idols, correct? If so, I should take that as a sign of respect?

I can respect you as a person and I'm tolerant of your religious believes. Same as you would do with Hindus worshiping the cow. You look at them as worshiping a ... cow, right? is that a sign of respect?

For millennia if all what people would demand was religious tolerance instead of demanding and forcing religious respect, a lot of bloodshed would have been spared.