Today I Did...Things You Just Did For The First Time

[aygart]

To clear some things up:

A knife designed to complete a surgery is malachto lissur, regardless if the specific surgery you are carrying it around for is going to be mutar, because pikuach Nefesh  doche Shabbos. Malachto lissur is muttar ltzorech gufoi and mekoimoi anyways.  Now you have a question if it is considered muktza machmas chasaron kis or not, which is much more strict. Since it's easily replaceable and is used that way, it shouldn't be.

As an aside, if it was considered malachto l'heter according to the Rav it would never fall under the category of muktza machmas chasaron kis (that category doesn't exist), while the MB maintains that it does.

1. If it is set aside for a specific user then it can become no longer lissur but I don't think this case would be considered that. You would still be allowed to use it to cut meat.

2. I forgot about that opinion that it is not ours own category.

[yelped]

1. If it is set aside for a specific user then it can become no longer lissur but I don't think this case would be considered that. You would still be allowed to use it to cut meat.

2. I forgot about that opinion that it is not ours own category.

1. You would need a maase or Yichud before Shabbos.

2. Oh that's something I won't forget. One of the beautiful things about the Rav is how clear and defined everything is.

[rbs-g1.5]

btw these blades (11 and 15)are used by sofrim and i would assume other craftsmen as well, not only for surgery.  i am guessing they dont have a din of sakin shel sofrim bec . once you have them in the house they get used for many things (although they will usually be changed after  using them for something else) being they are disposable and relatively cheap .i assume they have the same shaila as paper nowadays that it may not be chisaron kis 

[aygart]

1. You would need a maase or Yichud before Shabbos.

The way @jj1000 described it being put aside may be adequate, but I don't know the details and it is definitely dependent on machloksim.

[aygart]

btw these blades (11 and 15)are used by sofrim and i would assume other craftsmen as well, not only for surgery.  i am guessing they dont have a din of sakin shel sofrim bec . once you have them in the house they get used for many things (although they will usually be changed after  using them for something else) being they are disposable and relatively cheap .i assume they have the same shaila as paper nowadays that it may not be chisaron kis 

The value is probably more similar to paper the Rav Moshe was referring to, but the use case is different and may not fit into the category at all.

[S209]

Many people carry guns on shabbos, I assume it's not muktza because it's purpose is to save lives.

According to many (R’ Moshe?) it’s not muktza because a gun’s primary use when carried is as a deterrent and not to be fired.

[CountValentine]

...because a gun’s primary use when carried is as a deterrent and not to be fired.

BIG BIG mistake!!!

[jj1000]

According to many (R’ Moshe?) it’s not muktza because a gun’s primary use when carried is as a deterrent and not to be fired.

What about concealed carry?

[CountValentine]

What about concealed carry?

Don't take it out unless you are going to use and don't put it back until you are done.
Otherwise:

BIG BIG mistake!!!

[jj1000]

Don't take it out unless you are going to use and don't put it back until you are done.
Otherwise:

Is concealed carry a deterrent for a terrorist or a mugger?

[S209]

BIG BIG mistake!!!

Are most personal defense weapons ever fired outside of a shooting range?

What about concealed carry?

Good question, it’s very problematic on Shabbos.

[imayid2]

Whoa. Hold on there. It's a huuuuge Machlokes.

Yes. I stand corrected. According to the shach and others it seems to be מלאכתו להיתר.

Surgical equipment is arguably worse as perhaps there is a difference between lifesaving equipment which it’s use may be classified as דחויה, and something like Milah which is הותרה.

[CountValentine]

Are most personal defense weapons ever fired outside of a shooting range?

No

[S209]

No

Then their primary purpose is as a deterrent. Primary purpose can be defined as the use in the majority of cases.

[CountValentine]

Then their primary purpose is as a deterrent. Primary purpose can be defined as the use in the majority of cases.

There primary purpose is to protect in the context we are talking.

[S209]

There primary purpose is to protect in the context we are talking.

I agree they’re to protect but primarily as a deterrent not as an actual weapon. For all intents and purposes an unloaded gun is a great deterrent as well and would work well. The only benefit a loaded gun has is in the rare occurrence it’s needed you actually have a weapon as well.

[jj1000]

I agree they’re to protect but primarily as a deterrent not as an actual weapon. For all intents and purposes an unloaded gun is a great deterrent as well and would work well. The only benefit a loaded gun has is in the rare occurrence it’s needed you actually have a weapon as well.

Disagree. Showing a gun automatically raises the stakes and makes a bad guy with a gun more likely to use theirs. An unloaded gun could in many instances be more dangerous than no gun.

[S209]

Disagree. Showing a gun automatically raises the stakes and makes a bad guy with a gun more likely to use theirs. An unloaded gun could in many instances be more dangerous than no gun.

The vast vast majority of the time having a gun in a holster scares off potential trouble. This is what I mean when I say it’s mainly a deterrent.

[S209]

The primary issue with carrying a gun on Shabbos is the muktze status of the gun. A gun fires the projectile by igniting a primer compound which then ignites the gunpowder. Igniting the primer and powder is forbidden on Shabbos under the prohibition of ריבעמ, igniting a fire. Therefore, firing a gun recreationally would be forbidden on Shabbos. However, is firing the bullet the primary purpose of a defensive firearm? Studies have shown that somewhere between 50000 and one million times a year, the mere presentation of a firearm serves to deter commission of a crime. It can therefore be argued that intimidation, rather than shooting, is the main use for a gun. (One could then argue that a precision target rifle used only for competition would be muktze as chisaron kis, due to its sole use for competition, but this is beyond the scope of this essay.) If a gun is muktze, carrying it, and indeed even moving it, would in most cases be forbidden.

R’ Shlomo Zalman Aurbach is quoted in Shemiras Shabbos Ke-Hilkhasah, ch. 20 n. 28, as commenting that a gun’s primary purpose is intimidation, and that therefore a gun is not muktze since it is a permitted use.

Rabbi Shlomo Goren in Meshiv Milchamah vol. 2 pp. 53-54 comments that the vast majority of uses for a gun is to save a life, either indirectly (through the intimidation factor) or directly, thus a gun is not muktze because it is a matter of pekuach nefesh.

I was not able to find many sources that hold guns to be muktze.

In Hilchos Tzava by Rabbi Zachariah Ben Shlomo, (p. 304 n. 1), comments that an item's muktze status is determined by what it is made for. A gun is made to be shot, which is forbidden on Shabbos, so it is muktzah. This would be directly contradictory to the conclusions of both R. Aurbach and R. Goren.

I saw R. Shlomo Min Hahar (Dinei tzava U-Milchamah, par. 220) quoted as ruling directly that a gun is considered a k'li she-melachto le-issur, an object whose primary purpose is forbidden on Shabbos, and therefore cannot be used or handled on Shabbos. I haven’t been able to locate this source to be able to read it directly (see http://hirhurim.blogspot.com/2008/09/guns-on-shabbos.html?m=1 for the reference).

The Mishnah Berurah (Hilchos Shabbos 308) discusses muktze status, and concludes that in order for an object to be a kli she-melachto le-issur, two conditions must be met: the object’s primary purpose must be forbidden and the majority of its uses must be prohibited actions. Based on this, a gun meets the first criterion but not the second, as the most frequent uses of a gun are for intimidation rather than firing the bullet. Thus, by this standard, a gun is not a kli she-melachto le-issur. The Mishnah Berurah’s opinion on muktze seems to be the standard most frequently accepted today.

The shulchan aruch, aruch hashulchan, and the or zarua all rule that a weapon is not a tachshit, an ornament and thus can't be carried outside an Eruv under normal circumstances, but they all appear to assume that a weapon is not muktze. One would assume that if a weapon were muktze, there would be no need to discuss whether a weapon is a tachshit. The Gemara in Sanhedrin mentioned above clearly concludes that a weapon is NOT an ornament and thus not permissible to carry outside an eruv, but gives no indication that such would be assur on Shabbos inside an eruv. I will discuss this issue further later on.

It seems therefore, based on these considerations, that a gun is not muktze on Shabbos, and would therefore be permitted to handle and carry on Shabbos within an eruv.

Source

[S209]

Rabbi Shlomo Goren in Meshiv Milchamah vol. 2 pp. 53-54 comments that the vast majority of uses for a gun is to save a life, either indirectly (through the intimidation factor) or directly, thus a gun is not muktze because it is a matter of pekuach nefesh.

This answer actually sounds similar to yours.

But it's intended purpose is lifesaving in this case. So how could it be muktza?

Many people carry guns on shabbos, I assume it's not muktza because it's purpose is to save lives.