Poll

Does gender affirming care breach the doctrine of do no harm?

Yes
31 (88.6%)
No
2 (5.7%)
Other - explain in thread
2 (5.7%)

Total Members Voted: 35

Author Topic: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?  (Read 16287 times)

Offline Welder

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #180 on: March 02, 2023, 06:53:44 PM »
random people practicing said religion outside of the community or even in much smaller miniscule communities, is very much not indicative of a cult

I don't think a size of a group, or the origin source of their philosophy, is relevant. The question is about behaviors, beliefs, control, etc.

there are plenty of religious individuals, small communities, and even mega groups that are not cults, and there are plenty that are cults.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2023, 07:11:39 PM by Welder »
"We need more welders and less philosophers" Marco Rubio

Offline S209

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #181 on: March 02, 2023, 07:45:40 PM »
Is a parent marrying off their 14 year old consenting daughter to a 19 year old man moral, or is it statutory rape?
Who said these are mutually exclusive?
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Offline moko

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #182 on: March 02, 2023, 08:08:58 PM »
I don't think a size of a group, or the origin source of their philosophy, is relevant. The question is about behaviors, beliefs, control, etc.

there are plenty of religious individuals, small communities, and even mega groups that are not cults, and there are plenty that are cults.
really? You know religious individuals who are cults?

Offline imayid2

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #183 on: March 02, 2023, 09:41:29 PM »
I don't think a size of a group, or the origin source of their philosophy, is relevant. The question is about behaviors, beliefs, control, etc.

there are plenty of religious individuals, small communities, and even mega groups that are not cults, and there are plenty that are cults.

Which definition of cult are you using?
Quote
1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers:
the physical fitness cult.

3. the object of such devotion.

4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

5. Sociology.
a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
the members of such a religion or sect.

7. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific
.

What's your defining line between a religion and a cult?

really? You know religious individuals who are cults?
I presume he means Individuals united by an idea which is different than a community living together.

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #184 on: March 03, 2023, 07:01:39 AM »
I don't think a size of a group, or the origin source of their philosophy, is relevant. The question is about behaviors, beliefs, control, etc.

there are plenty of religious individuals, small communities, and even mega groups that are not cults, and there are plenty that are cults.
I'd say the question is belief vs. knowledge. (עיין אבי עזרי רמב"ם תשובה ה,ה)

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #185 on: March 03, 2023, 08:29:51 AM »
Who said these are mutually exclusive?

There are strange birds that think the legality of an action or the political opinion defines its morality or lack thereof.

Offline neveryou

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #186 on: March 04, 2023, 10:00:40 PM »
?t=bQbluR6O0_cJCKethaB4Ag&s=19


Offline moko

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #187 on: March 04, 2023, 10:03:18 PM »
?t=bQbluR6O0_cJCKethaB4Ag&s=19
like an Ali G segment. It's not that he's smart just that she's mentally challenged

Offline S209

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #188 on: March 04, 2023, 10:46:36 PM »
There are strange birds that think the legality of an action or the political opinion defines its morality or lack thereof.
Seems unlikely, as there could then be no reason to have a legislature considering all laws currently on the books are the moral gold standard.
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Offline gozalim

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #189 on: March 08, 2023, 02:52:21 PM »
Question:what is the oldest continuously performed/practiced medical procedure/surgery ?

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #190 on: March 08, 2023, 02:58:18 PM »
Question:what is the oldest continuously performed/practiced medical procedure/surgery ?

I'd say הקזת דם but that wouldn't be in this thread.

Offline imayid2

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #191 on: March 08, 2023, 03:22:43 PM »
I'd say הקזת דם but that wouldn't be in this thread.
Continuous?

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #192 on: March 08, 2023, 03:27:36 PM »
Question:what is the oldest continuously performed/practiced medical procedure/surgery ?
C-sections are brought down in gemara. Don't know if it's the oldest though.

Offline aygart

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #193 on: March 08, 2023, 03:28:59 PM »
Question:what is the oldest continuously performed/practiced medical procedure/surgery ?
Probably castration
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #194 on: March 08, 2023, 03:30:45 PM »
Continuous?

The procedure is the same.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #195 on: March 08, 2023, 03:37:43 PM »
Question:what is the oldest continuously performed/practiced medical procedure/surgery ?

Gotta be kids putting on some versions of band aids on "boo boos"

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #196 on: March 08, 2023, 03:40:45 PM »
Trepanation
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #197 on: March 08, 2023, 03:52:55 PM »
C-sections are brought down in gemara. Don't know if it's the oldest though.

The ancient C-sections were only conducted on a mother who died in order to save the baby. The modern C-Section done while the mother is alive dates back just a few hundred years.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #198 on: March 08, 2023, 04:02:46 PM »
The ancient C-sections were only conducted on a mother who died in order to save the baby. The modern C-Section done while the mother is alive dates back just a few hundred years.
-1.

It's not so clear, but it seems like the C-sections in the gemara were cases where the mother was alive and survived the operation

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #199 on: March 08, 2023, 04:27:21 PM »
-1.

It's not so clear, but it seems like the C-sections in the gemara were cases where the mother was alive and survived the operation

Correct, it's actually very clear in the Mishna the various dinim of the surviving mother and subsequent born infant. Somehow it was forgotten and surviving mother is of no mention in the later Poskim as being performed in their times - according to a big talmid chacham I listened too. Modern Historians posit the first case of surviving mother to be in the 1500's, although they mention the Talmudic indications that it was done in Roman era. In any case this wasn't a continuous procedure throughout history.

The Chazon Ish actually points to many medical complicated procedures which were forgotten over the years, as a sign that later generations were not intrinsically more advanced than earlier generations.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 04:34:18 PM by EliJelly »