Poll

Does gender affirming care breach the doctrine of do no harm?

Yes
20 (87%)
No
2 (8.7%)
Other - explain in thread
1 (4.3%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Author Topic: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?  (Read 5699 times)

Offline drosenberg88429

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2020
  • Posts: 560
  • Total likes: 1123
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #60 on: February 27, 2023, 11:49:14 PM »
The good news is that some diseases and mutations have a very low chance of being hereditary, so they may be self correcting issues over time via the evolutionary process.

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 14359
  • Total likes: 6251
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #61 on: February 27, 2023, 11:54:39 PM »
As was noted in past, comparing circumcision to vaginoplasty is effective equivalent of comparing ear piercing to ear removal. Without taking a side on whether gender change surgery is a choice a parent should be able to authorize for a minor, I do feel compelled to say this: C'mon, man.
Saying they are both mutilation is not comparing them. There are degrees to everything.

ETA:This is just two of many articles stating the same thing. Do I agree with them, no!!!
https://www.vice.com/en/article/jmbqj3/is-male-circumcision-a-form-of-genital-mutilation
https://rickvee.medium.com/circumcision-is-genital-mutilation-a623236b243b
« Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 12:12:54 AM by CountValentine »
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline drosenberg88429

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2020
  • Posts: 560
  • Total likes: 1123
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #62 on: February 27, 2023, 11:57:22 PM »
100 years after being debunked and labeled one of the most absurd things Freud dreamed up, phallus envy syndrome is now epidemic. The world is ironic.

Offline drosenberg88429

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2020
  • Posts: 560
  • Total likes: 1123
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #63 on: February 27, 2023, 11:57:42 PM »
Saying they are both mutilation is not comparing them. There are degrees to everything.

Exactly

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 14359
  • Total likes: 6251
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #64 on: February 27, 2023, 11:58:57 PM »
Exactly
So you are saying I didn't compare them?  :)
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline drosenberg88429

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2020
  • Posts: 560
  • Total likes: 1123
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #65 on: February 28, 2023, 12:08:52 AM »
So you are saying I didn't compare them?  :)

Thst would be a funny thing for me to have an opinion on. 🤔 I don't really have an opinion whether 487 x 942 = 416,864. It's a yes or no question, which can quickly be verified by some basic math or a calculator (or in this case, reading a few posts up in the thread). Anyone interested can clarify for themselves.

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4257
  • Total likes: 12149
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #66 on: February 28, 2023, 12:39:00 AM »
A quick google search returned: Gender-affirming care is medically necessary, evidence-based care that uses a multidisciplinary approach to help a person transition from their assigned gender the one the person was designated at birth to their affirmed gender the gender by which one wants to be known.

That doesn't answer the question.

Does that mean a hysterectomy, giving testosterone?

It is a multidisciplinary approach. It can be but limited to social affirmation, puberty blockers, hormone therapy and gender-affirming surgeries. Just within those 4 categories there are sub-categories.

So it's everything? Those are all quite different! How can you have a discussion which is putting *all* of that in the same playing field?

I am in no way an advocate for gender-affirming care. You just can't ignore the mountain of medical information out there on this. This started about one thing about the bill and after reading article after article it became clear the whole bill was trash.

I dunno about the mountains. It seems (to me) any time someone pokes at the mountain it starts crumbling like it's a child's sand castle.
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 14359
  • Total likes: 6251
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #67 on: February 28, 2023, 12:45:06 AM »
So it's everything? Those are all quite different! How can you have a discussion which is putting *all* of that in the same playing field?
That is what gender affirming care is all about. Reading the post from the ill-informed you would never know that.
I dunno about the mountains. It seems (to me) any time someone pokes at the mountain it starts crumbling like it's a child's sand castle.
This Mauna Loa, it isn't going anywhere!  :P
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4257
  • Total likes: 12149
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #68 on: February 28, 2023, 12:53:11 AM »
That is what gender affirming care is all about. Reading the post from the ill-informed you would never know that.

Again, how can you even begin a discussion when using a phrase that is - strategically - used as a catch all. You say, "hold up, are we really giving minors irreversible surgery?" vs the GAC activist give a faux horrified gasp and say, "who us? We're just doing "social affirmation."

Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 14359
  • Total likes: 6251
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #69 on: February 28, 2023, 01:01:45 AM »
Again, how can you even begin a discussion when using a phrase that is - strategically - used as a catch all. You say, "hold up, are we really giving minors irreversible surgery?" vs the GAC activist give a faux horrified gasp and say, "who us? We're just doing "social affirmation."
You ask what it means and I told you.
This is a spinoff from the bill being discussed. The bill is trash.
Besides the obvious of trying to make it a felony for having a legal procedure in another state they want to make reversable puberty blockers a felony. The one side has study after study and the other side has the stupidity "mutilation".

Not that you know what GAC is you can vote in the poll.  :)
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 2343
  • Total likes: 2383
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #70 on: February 28, 2023, 01:08:53 AM »
You ask what it means and I told you.
This is a spinoff from the bill being discussed. The bill is trash.


That bill might be a joke from a legal standpoint but this new thread isn't about that bill at all. You're the OP, you should know what's in the thread title :P

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4257
  • Total likes: 12149
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #71 on: February 28, 2023, 01:16:33 AM »
You ask what it means and I told you.
This is a spinoff from the bill being discussed. The bill is trash.
Besides the obvious of trying to make it a felony for having a legal procedure in another state they want to make reversable puberty blockers a felony. The one side has study after study and the other side has the stupidity "mutilation".

Not that you know what GAC is you can vote in the poll.  :)

Firstly, I have no idea which Bill you are referring to, the first posts here don't mention a bill.

And regarding the poll, you can't possibly expect someone to answer the question in the poll with such a insanely broad definition.
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 14359
  • Total likes: 6251
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #72 on: February 28, 2023, 01:55:30 AM »
Firstly, I have no idea which Bill you are referring to, the first posts here don't mention a bill.

And regarding the poll, you can't possibly expect someone to answer the question in the poll with such a insanely broad definition.
If ask if the AA's 12 step program helps or hurts alcoholics you would not be able to answer because there are 12 steps, got it.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline m65

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 1840
  • Total likes: 616
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: israel
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #73 on: February 28, 2023, 03:13:24 AM »
Retarded? Here we go again.
In some cultures, they mutilate a newborn male not for medical reasons but for some insane ritual. That is sickening.
calling a harmless procedure mutlation doesnt make it such, even if u "identify" it that way
Every major respected medical profession/institution. Of course, that is meaningless to the mutilation crowd.
every single one? LOL

Having a medically approved procedure to help someone is not referred to as mutilation. Many women with or without breast cancer would be offended by your comments.
u keep on repeating the same "medicaly approved" nonsense
the fact is they are damaging ppl by cutting off their body parts.
that is mutilation, regardless of what anyone feels
im sorry if some ppl are offended, but facts dont care about feelings

I am not pretending anything. Do a simple search and you will see articles calling it mutilation.  Gender affirming care is warranted, approved and helps in certain cases. This is back up by numerous articles already posted. These are from highly respect places like the Mayo clinic. Now tell me who is the one pretending?
everything that every respected institution says must be true?
like the CDC?
like masking prevents covid?
if it says it on the internet it forsure must be true.... ;D

Then stop doing it to a newborn. What kind of sick individual would mutilate a newborn!!!  >:(
none. jews dont harm or damage their newborns

A quick google search returned: Gender-affirming care is medically necessary, evidence-based care that uses a multidisciplinary approach to help a person transition from their assigned gender the one the person was designated at birth to their affirmed gender the gender by which one wants to be known.
if it says it on google, it must be true. hands down


Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 14359
  • Total likes: 6251
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #74 on: February 28, 2023, 08:00:18 AM »
calling a harmless procedure mutlation doesnt make it such, even if u "identify" it that wayevery single one? LOL
u keep on repeating the same "medicaly approved" nonsense
the fact is they are damaging ppl by cutting off their body parts.
that is mutilation, regardless of what anyone feels
im sorry if some ppl are offended, but facts dont care about feelings
everything that every respected institution says must be true?
like the CDC?
like masking prevents covid?
if it says it on the internet it forsure must be true.... ;D
none. jews dont harm or damage their newborns
if it says it on google, it must be true. hands down
I can't take any more facts!!! ROFLMAO!!!
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 14359
  • Total likes: 6251
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #75 on: February 28, 2023, 08:29:55 AM »
...equivalent of comparing ear piercing to ear removal.
Is this a form of mutilation?  :)



Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4257
  • Total likes: 12149
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #76 on: February 28, 2023, 08:30:33 AM »
If ask if the AA's 12 step program helps or hurts alcoholics you would not be able to answer because there are 12 steps, got it.

Firstly, you can not say definitively about the 12 steps or about any treatment for that matter, that it will or will not be helpful or harmful.
Second, the 12 steps are a part of a singular modality.
Third, the 12 steps don't include irreversible surgeries.
Fourth, the question is phrased "help or hurt", many of these treatments definitely hurt, the question is whether the hurt is warranted for the overall good. This seems a very basic and clear breach of the "do no harm" doctrine.
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 14359
  • Total likes: 6251
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #77 on: February 28, 2023, 08:33:48 AM »
Fourth, the question is phrased "help or hurt", many of these treatments definitely hurt, the question is whether the hurt is warranted for the overall good. This seems a very basic and clear breach of the "do no harm" doctrine.
We can change the question if you like. What would you like it to be?

Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline yeshivabucher

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2018
  • Posts: 1956
  • Total likes: 536
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Monsey
  • Programs: Travel Agent, Marriott Gold, Hertz PC, National EE, Uber VIP, SPG Gold
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #78 on: February 28, 2023, 09:07:54 AM »
We can change the question if you like. What would you like it to be?


does gender affirming care breach the doctrine of do no harm?

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 14359
  • Total likes: 6251
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #79 on: February 28, 2023, 09:17:42 AM »
does gender affirming care breach the doctrine of do no harm?
Done!

Poll results from original question. I did not vote.
Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
Help 3
Hurt 21
Other - 1
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half