Poll

Does gender affirming care breach the doctrine of do no harm?

Yes
31 (88.6%)
No
2 (5.7%)
Other - explain in thread
2 (5.7%)

Total Members Voted: 35

Author Topic: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?  (Read 22063 times)

Offline bochur22

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Offline bochur22

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #141 on: February 28, 2023, 02:58:58 PM »
I appreciate the insight, but you avoided the question.
I am guessing you don't know of any.  ;)
The poll question was if it breached the doctrine.
ETA:It's also understood the onus of proof is on the one's changing the consensus. So I don't care if the associations change on a whim, because medicine was supposed to be science, The era of the witch doctors is supposed to be over. SHOW ME THE PROOF, PLEASE.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 03:04:04 PM by bochur22 »

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #142 on: February 28, 2023, 03:03:15 PM »
The poll question was if it breached the doctrine.
That is not the same as violating?  :)
OK, do you know of any major organizations that say doctors "breached" the do no harm doctrine by providing GAC?
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #143 on: February 28, 2023, 03:06:05 PM »
They preform surgeries on minors. So according to the definition (not mine) they provide GAC.
Not if you want to be honest if Boston's Childrens Hospital provides GAC, then go directly to the source. You don't want to be honest and instead are trying gotcha questions.

Why can't you answer the question? Do they or do they not provide GAC? They only provide one type of surgery to minors and NO surgeries to children under 15. So do they not provide GAC to kids under 15? Or, do they only provide SOME FORMS of GAC? Are they going against all those medical associations that have come out for GAC?

It is not a gotcha question. It gets to the heart of the matter. Everything is being included under the rubric of "GAC", and anyone who questions ANY of it is then automatically on the "anti-science" or "transphobic" side. There was just a massive campaign against the NYT for this.

As I said above, all the associations who have come out with blanket statements about how the science back GAC, without specifying what in the heck they are talking about, are revealing that the statement is purely political and not in any way medical.

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #144 on: February 28, 2023, 03:10:22 PM »
Why can't you answer the question? Do they or do they not provide GAC? They only provide one type of surgery to minors and NO surgeries to children under 15. So do they not provide GAC to kids under 15? Or, do they only provide SOME FORMS of GAC? Are they going against all those medical associations that have come out for GAC?

It is not a gotcha question. It gets to the heart of the matter. Everything is being included under the rubric of "GAC", and anyone who questions ANY of it is then automatically on the "anti-science" or "transphobic" side. There was just a massive campaign against the NYT for this.

As I said above, all the associations who have come out with blanket statements about how the science back GAC, without specifying what in the heck they are talking about, are revealing that the statement is purely political and not in any way medical.
I didn't make up the term or what it means.
YES, BCH provides GAC including but not limited to certain surgeries.
Now if you want confirmation just got to their site.
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Offline bochur22

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #145 on: February 28, 2023, 03:15:51 PM »
I didn't make up the term or what it means.
YES, BCH provides GAC including but not limited to certain surgeries.
Now if you want confirmation just got to their site.
From the study on them:  The Center for Gender Surgery (CfGS) at Boston Children’s Hospital (BCH) was the first pediatric center in the United States to offer gender-affirming chest surgeries for individuals over 15 years old and genital surgeries for those over 17 years of age. In the four years since its inception, CfGS has completed over 300 gender-affirming surgeries.
So not just some surgeries...

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #146 on: February 28, 2023, 03:17:59 PM »
From the study on them:  The Center for Gender Surgery (CfGS) at Boston Children’s Hospital (BCH) was the first pediatric center in the United States to offer gender-affirming chest surgeries for individuals over 15 years old and genital surgeries for those over 17 years of age. In the four years since its inception, CfGS has completed over 300 gender-affirming surgeries.
So not just some surgeries...
Thank you for the confirmation that they do GAC surgeries.
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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #147 on: February 28, 2023, 03:22:08 PM »
Everyone has said their peace and it is time for CHAIM!!!
I apologize for crossing the line, but I was tired of all the I am for mutilating children attacks.


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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #148 on: February 28, 2023, 03:32:48 PM »
I didn't make up the term or what it means.
YES, BCH provides GAC including but not limited to certain surgeries.
Now if you want confirmation just got to their site.

I never said you made up the term. I'm showing you how even the hospitals that provide GAC are NOT providing it in a manner consistent with the various medical associations' statements of support. You cannot with a straight face have a discussion about whether GAC breaches the do-no-harm doctrine if we can't even be clear whether or not that includes giving a 14 year old or a 15 year old a mastectomy.

I've seen arguments that GAC is the equivalent of wearing tight clothing or putting on makeup. This is a strategic way to make anyone who opposes life-changing irreversible surgery on a minor as being a transphobe.

You've said that no one has posted support for thinking it breaches "do no harm" when we've pointed out that Sweden, Finland, and Britain have all reversed course on much of their GAC treatments. I showed you how the very studies used to show low regret rates state they cannot be used for that purpose.

Offline zh cohen

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Offline neveryou

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #150 on: February 28, 2023, 06:36:10 PM »
Everyone has said their peace and it is time for CHAIM!!!
I apologize for crossing the line, but I was tired of all the I am for mutilating children attacks.


You didn't deny that you are pro castration or mutilation of children and teenagers.

If it makes you uncomfortable that that is your position, hopefully that will help you wake up and smell the coffee.

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #151 on: February 28, 2023, 07:22:17 PM »
If it makes you uncomfortable that that is your position, hopefully that will help you wake up and smell the coffee.
It made me we wake up and recognize despicable human beings that hide behind their religion.
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Offline m65

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #152 on: February 28, 2023, 07:54:01 PM »
It made me we wake up and recognize despicable human beings that hide behind their religion.
i think that castrating a confused teenager thereby preventing him from ever having children, even after he may grow up one day is a crime on every level possible (even if not legally considered so)

i believe that preventing a young girl from ever giving birth to or from ever feeding her own child is a first degree crime against humanity

my religion dictates that, as does my god given non mutilated brain

does that make me a despicable human being hiding behind religion?

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #153 on: February 28, 2023, 07:58:29 PM »
Is a parent marrying off their 14 year old consenting daughter to a 19 year old man moral, or is it statutory rape?

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #154 on: February 28, 2023, 08:07:22 PM »
does that make me a despicable human being hiding behind religion?
Those that try and make others something they are not I put in that category. They keep pushing and pushing.
Are you doing that?

Some just don't know when to stop.
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Offline m65

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #155 on: February 28, 2023, 08:10:10 PM »
Those that try and make others something they are not I put in that category. They keep pushing and pushing.
Are you doing that?
i never made anyone different than they are
are u claiming that god does?
so is he desp-------?

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #156 on: February 28, 2023, 08:10:53 PM »
Those that try and make others something they are not I put in that category. They keep pushing and pushing.



This is way too ironic.

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #157 on: February 28, 2023, 08:11:40 PM »
i never made anyone different than they are
Then it doesn't concern you.
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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #158 on: February 28, 2023, 08:13:06 PM »
This is way too ironic.
...on many levels.
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Offline m65

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Re: Gender affirming care, does it help or hurt children?
« Reply #159 on: February 28, 2023, 08:16:43 PM »
Then it doesn't concern you.
i do think however it should concern those promoting or defending these horrifying surgeries