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Here are the pointers.

The Supreme Court is not elected by representatives of the people. They are elected by other Supreme Court justices as well as from the Israel Bar Association.

The Supreme Court has the ultimate say on any law passed in Israel. They govern purely on "feelings", there is no constitution they base rulings on. This means that if the Knesset passes a bill regardless by what % of MK's voting for the bill. The SC can cancel that law/bill by a simple majority and the knesset cannot do anything about it.

The reform bill basically wants to give the elected officials of the Knesset the ability to choose who should be on the SC just like in the USA. They also want to take away the ability of the SC to cancel basic laws. They want to put the power back in the hands of the knesset who are democratically elected by the people.

This terrifies the left in Israel since they know they will never have a majority again in the Knesset. They will always need to rely on people like Lieberman, who although sat with Lapid is generally Right Wing, Gantz as well is Center Right and will also want more right wing judges if it was up to the Knesset. The left in Israel has only one thing preventing a true right wing country. That is the SC and that is why they are fighting until the bitter end.



« Last edited by username on March 27, 2023, 12:28:23 PM »

Author Topic: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....  (Read 55616 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2023, 12:02:29 PM »
This must be serious. McDonalds is closed!!!  :)
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2023, 12:04:13 PM »
Basically the protesters view the American judiciary system as a dictatorship and want to avoid that system being replicated in Israel so it stays a democracy. 
Not really. Takes more than 50% vote to change the constitution. So it's somewhat apples and oranges as explained above.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2023, 12:06:27 PM »
Does Israel have anything similar to a constitution?
Where does the US stand on this? Trying to stay out of it?
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2023, 12:07:19 PM »
Does Israel have anything similar to a constitution?
Nope
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2023, 12:08:23 PM »
Nope
So whoever is in power makes the law? If so, that is insane!!!
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Offline jj1000

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2023, 12:09:14 PM »
Unlike the US Israel has no constitution
Exactly...
Apples and oranges as explained above.

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2023, 12:10:00 PM »
So whoever is in power makes the law? If so, that is insane!!!
No, whoever is on the Supreme Court decides the law ;)

Hence the want for reform. And Supreme court appoint themselves, so no chance of their political leanings ever changing.
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2023, 12:12:13 PM »
Exactly...

Misunderstood your point. Thought you say that unlike the US this reform allows a simple majority to overturn the constitution, which they don't have. Of course this alone makes it different indeed.

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2023, 12:16:18 PM »
Misunderstood your point. Thought you say that unlike the US this reform allows a simple majority to overturn the constitution, which they don't have. Of course this alone makes it different indeed.
Your point of they view the "American judiciary system as a dictatorship and want to avoid that system being replicated in Israel"

Is not true.

Their system is completely different from the get go because of no constitution. And it just get s more different from there.
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2023, 12:17:01 PM »
No, whoever is on the Supreme Court decides the law ;)

Hence the want for reform. And Supreme court appoint themselves, so no chance of their political leanings ever changing.
So with the reform who will be in charge of making the law?
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2023, 12:18:15 PM »
So whoever is in power makes the law? If so, that is insane!!!

The opposite. No matter who is in charge, the court gets to decide what happens, and they also decide who gets to be a judge. So the voters don't get to choose what happens, which is why both sides of the political aisle have been speaking about instituting judicial reform for decades now.

So with the reform who will be in charge of making the law?

The Knesset - i.e the people who were voted in by the citizens

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2023, 12:23:47 PM »
The Knesset - i.e the people who were voted in by the citizens
That is what I was afraid of. That is the definition of insanity.
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2023, 12:39:08 PM »
Did someone just blink?

Netanyahu agrees to pause judicial overhaul plans following widespread unrest in Israel
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/netanyahu-agrees-to-pause-judicial-overhaul-plans-following-widespread-unrest-in-israel/ar-AA197Gek?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b642e705512a4acd8caabbf75359f473&ei=12
he did. Btw the “court” (ag) did not let him negotiate with the other side. Partially, why it got so out of control.

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2023, 12:44:12 PM »
I don't know about all frum people but the haredi parties need the reform passed, specifically the part about the knesset can override supreme court cancelling laws, so they can repass the law that allows them not to do army service. Otherwise the court will once again over rule it.

An idea that could unite the country.
Make army service optional for all.
Yes, the chareidi still won't go.  But many chiloni won't go either.
Universal national service has benefits for building national unity, but at this point, iti's only tearing the county apart.
Once service is voluntary, everyone is on an equal playing field - chiloni and chareidi.
And the Chareidi young men will drift into the workforce, which they've been shut out of until now due to not serving. So the large chareidi families will add to the tax base instead of being perceived as a net negative.
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2023, 12:47:49 PM »
An idea that could unite the country.
Make army service optional for all.
Yes, the chareidi still won't go.  But many chiloni won't go either.
Universal national service has benefits for building national unity, but at this point, iti's only tearing the county apart.
Once service is voluntary, everyone is on an equal playing field - chiloni and chareidi.
And the Chareidi young men will drift into the workforce, which they've been shut out of until now due to not serving. So the large chareidi families will add to the tax base instead of being perceived as a net negative.
How does any one group refusing to serve unite anything?
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2023, 12:49:29 PM »
That is what I was afraid of. That is the definition of insanity.

You are missing an important point: The Israeli legislature has 120 seats. In order to form a government one needs 61 votes. No party has anything close to that, so a coalition government needs to be formed, any government and any law that needs to pass is inherently based on negotiations and compromise. Furthermore, recent events have shown (not for the first time) that even when the coalition supports certain legislation, they have to answer to the public at the ballot (which can occur more often than every four years, if the government is toppled by the legislature. As a matter of fact few, if any, governments in Israel served full terms), and are therefore sensitive to the public.

OTOH, the Supreme Court has assumed powers that were never granted to it. It furthermore deemed "Basic Laws" a quasi-constitution (despite the fact that there is no legal threshold differentiating a "basic law" from any other law, other than the title), and used them to strike down other legislation (even though at the time of discussions over the enactment of said "basic law" it was claimed that it doesn't give the court any authority to strike down laws), yet when it suits their agenda, they take the liberty to strike down also "basic laws". Just imagine the SCOTUS striking down a constitutional amendment.
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2023, 12:52:26 PM »
You are missing an important point:
Didn't miss that point.

Are you actually voting for a party and not directly voting for a person?
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2023, 12:52:46 PM »
How does any one group refusing to serve unite anything?

Military service is used as a dog-whistle to obfuscate the true agenda.

The bottom line is that the military professionals would much rather abandon the compulsory draft and move to a professional model similar to the US. However, the compulsory draft "the people's army" (there's a reason it sounds like it does) is a political mechanism, not a professional security-interests-based mechanism (just like the Eurozone isn't a financial mechanism, but rather a political one).
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2023, 12:53:21 PM »
Didn't miss that point.

Are you actually voting for a party and not directly voting for a person?

Correct. (though don't include me, I've never voted in Israeli elections, despite being a citizen).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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