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The Supreme Court is not elected by representatives of the people. They are elected by other Supreme Court justices as well as from the Israel Bar Association.

The Supreme Court has the ultimate say on any law passed in Israel. They govern purely on "feelings", there is no constitution they base rulings on. This means that if the Knesset passes a bill regardless by what % of MK's voting for the bill. The SC can cancel that law/bill by a simple majority and the knesset cannot do anything about it.

The reform bill basically wants to give the elected officials of the Knesset the ability to choose who should be on the SC just like in the USA. They also want to take away the ability of the SC to cancel basic laws. They want to put the power back in the hands of the knesset who are democratically elected by the people.

This terrifies the left in Israel since they know they will never have a majority again in the Knesset. They will always need to rely on people like Lieberman, who although sat with Lapid is generally Right Wing, Gantz as well is Center Right and will also want more right wing judges if it was up to the Knesset. The left in Israel has only one thing preventing a true right wing country. That is the SC and that is why they are fighting until the bitter end.



« Last edited by username on March 27, 2023, 12:28:23 PM »

Author Topic: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....  (Read 45528 times)

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2023, 12:56:31 PM »
Military service is used as a dog-whistle to obfuscate the true agenda.


And similarly, objections to the proposed judicial reform (which should actually be called - Restoration of Democracy) crying that the proposed legislation is anti-democratic, are simply a way to obfuscate the true agenda of the protesters (or at least of their leaders and funders. I am having a discussion over Twitter with someone I know that posted that he's protesting, and questioning is showing how naive he is).
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2023, 01:00:39 PM »
Military service is used as a dog-whistle to obfuscate the true agenda.

The bottom line is that the military professionals would much rather abandon the compulsory draft and move to a professional model similar to the US. However, the compulsory draft "the people's army" (there's a reason it sounds like it does) is a political mechanism, not a professional security-interests-based mechanism (just like the Eurozone isn't a financial mechanism, but rather a political one).
Pick a side. What if the D's or R's decided they will not participate to protect our country. What do you think would happen?  :)
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2023, 01:01:44 PM »
Pick a side. What if the D's or R's decided they will not participate to protect our country. What do you think would happen?  :)

I cannot fathom that.
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2023, 01:06:23 PM »

Military service is used as a dog-whistle to obfuscate the true agenda.

The bottom line is that the military professionals would much rather abandon the compulsory draft and move to a professional model similar to the US. However, the compulsory draft "the people's army" (there's a reason it sounds like it does) is a political mechanism, not a professional security-interests-based mechanism (just like the Eurozone isn't a financial mechanism, but rather a political one).
Exactly.  Everyone would have the same footing to opt in or out of the military.
And abandoning the draft would solve some of the religious divide. The frum would go to work so you don't have the impression of
20% of the population does 80% of the work
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2023, 01:12:31 PM »
Exactly.  Everyone would have the same footing to opt in or out of the military.
And abandoning the draft would solve some of the religious divide. The frum would go to work so you don't have the impression of
You don't see a large % of the population not willing to serve as a problem that will divide a country?
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2023, 01:32:16 PM »
You don't see a large % of the population not willing to serve as a problem that will divide a country?

The reason for the current protests tearing appart the nation have nothing to do with those that don't serve in the army. On the contrary, the most ardent army supporters, the national religous, are the ones pushing for the (much needed) judicial reforms.

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2023, 01:42:08 PM »
The reason for the current protests tearing appart the nation have nothing to do with those that don't serve in the army. On the contrary, the most ardent army supporters, the national religous, are the ones pushing for the (much needed) judicial reforms.
My question was addressing the point being made that getting rid of the mandatory service will unite the country. IMHO when you have any large group not willing to serve will tear the country apart.
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2023, 01:49:56 PM »
My question was addressing the point being made that getting rid of the mandatory service will unite the country. IMHO when you have any large group not willing to serve will tear the country apart.
That rift has existed since Israel was established as learning in yeshiva gives a service waiver.
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2023, 01:49:58 PM »
My question was addressing the point being made that getting rid of the mandatory service will unite the country. IMHO when you have any large group not willing to serve will tear the country apart.
That is already the case. He is suggesting to mitigate the damage by allowing anyone not to serve

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2023, 02:04:38 PM »
That rift has existed since Israel was established as learning in yeshiva gives a service waiver.
They then serve after the learning?
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2023, 02:05:22 PM »
That is already the case. He is suggesting to mitigate the damage by allowing anyone not to serve
IMHO opinion that would make it worse.
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2023, 02:06:43 PM »
So whoever is in power makes the law? If so, that is insane!!!
Please explain why that’s insane. (I understand the concern of tyranny by the majority but that doesn’t make it an “insane” idea, especially when many major countries such as Australia and Canada essentially function this way.)

It’s key to realize that not every country should be required to follow the exact system we have in the US. Countries are entitled to divergent views.
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2023, 02:10:56 PM »
They then serve after the learning?
They stay in yeshiva until they are too old to be drafted. Even then, they can't get a regular job or go to school since they didn't serve

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2023, 02:12:34 PM »
Please explain why that’s insane. (I understand the concern of tyranny by the majority but that doesn’t make it an “insane” idea, especially when many major countries such as Australia and Canada essentially function this way.)

It’s key to realize that not every country should be required to follow the exact system we have in the US. Countries are entitled to divergent views.
Any country can have any view they want.

Having a law bounce back and forth depending which party is in power is insanity to me.

Let's take guns as an issue. This year they are legal and next year they are banned. But wait there is more, the year after they are legal again.  :)

Or in Israel, one year everyone must serve and the next year no one has to serve. The list goes on and on.
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2023, 02:12:57 PM »
They stay in yeshiva until they are too old to be drafted. Even then, they can't get a regular job or go to school since they didn't serve
...and the women?
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2023, 02:15:12 PM »
...and the women?
I don't think it is compulsory for women but I'm sure someone here has more knowledge

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2023, 02:17:17 PM »
I don't think it is compulsory for women but I'm sure someone here has more knowledge
Found this on the internet but you know what they say about the internet.

The IDF is one of the only armies in the Western world in which women are drafted to military service by law. Women have served in the Israeli army ever since its establishment in 1948.
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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2023, 02:17:59 PM »
I don't think it is compulsory for women but I'm sure someone here has more knowledge
I think it is compulsory and the religious get a waiver.

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2023, 02:18:08 PM »
Any country can have any view they want.

Having a law bounce back and forth depending which party is in power is insanity to me.

Let's take guns as an issue. This year they are legal and next year they are banned. But wait there is more, the year after they are legal again.  :)

Or in Israel, one year everyone must serve and the next year no one has to serve. The list goes on and on.

How is this different than any other republican form of Govt?
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2023, 02:19:47 PM »
How is this different than any other republican form of Govt?
Who said it was?
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