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Here are the pointers.

The Supreme Court is not elected by representatives of the people. They are elected by other Supreme Court justices as well as from the Israel Bar Association.

The Supreme Court has the ultimate say on any law passed in Israel. They govern purely on "feelings", there is no constitution they base rulings on. This means that if the Knesset passes a bill regardless by what % of MK's voting for the bill. The SC can cancel that law/bill by a simple majority and the knesset cannot do anything about it.

The reform bill basically wants to give the elected officials of the Knesset the ability to choose who should be on the SC just like in the USA. They also want to take away the ability of the SC to cancel basic laws. They want to put the power back in the hands of the knesset who are democratically elected by the people.

This terrifies the left in Israel since they know they will never have a majority again in the Knesset. They will always need to rely on people like Lieberman, who although sat with Lapid is generally Right Wing, Gantz as well is Center Right and will also want more right wing judges if it was up to the Knesset. The left in Israel has only one thing preventing a true right wing country. That is the SC and that is why they are fighting until the bitter end.



« Last edited by username on March 27, 2023, 12:28:23 PM »

Author Topic: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....  (Read 41721 times)

Offline LongTimeLurker

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #340 on: September 11, 2023, 05:24:18 AM »
Some of the issues mentioned are cultural, it just so happens you're living with the people as opposed to being a work environment.
The army specifically allows people to go and daven, it just so happens your fellow soldiers might be working on something while you go daven as opposed to relaxing. So obviously this can create conflict.
Them all going out and meeting on Friday/Saturday, for sure.
A non shabbat environment, yes, it feels like this sometimes. Can only imagine what it's like now with phones.
Working on shabbat etc.. Technically speaking the army doesn't work on shabbat. But if an officer/commander who is not shomer shabbat is on base, they might do paperwork. But there's no formal work being done - no one is going to make you work.

Offline UKinNYS

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« Last Edit: September 12, 2023, 01:35:55 PM by UKinNYS »

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #342 on: September 12, 2023, 08:30:42 PM »
Link here to watch hearing today, fascinating even if u dont understand hebrew
https://www.jewishpress.com/news/the-courts/watch-15-judge-panel-to-hear-petitions-calling-to-annul-constitutional-law-govt-gets-1-hour-to-respond/2023/09/12/

Rothmans full speech https://www.jewishpress.com/news/the-courts/judges-heckled-rothmans-arguments-want-to-read-what-he-wanted-to-say-no-problem/2023/09/12/

13 hours and 40 minutes of a farce, just so that Esther Hayout gets to sit on this and write the decision as her grand finale. 🤮🤮🤮

Such a case deserved more time to prepare, and several sessions to argue. IF at all it deserves to be heard altogether, rather than dismissed for lack of jurisdiction.

Also, where else in the world does a government AG argue against the government at the supreme court without being summarily fired?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline yfr bachur

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #343 on: October 06, 2023, 03:38:58 AM »
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2229368/yom-kippur-backlash-secular-editor-attends-birchas-kohanim-for-1st-time.html

True honest liberal

Quote
“If I lived in Jerusalem, I would vote for Meretz in the municipal election to protect the secular minority in the “mitchareid” [becoming Chareidi] city. But since I live in Tel Aviv – I’ll vote for one of the religious parties to protect the traditional minority in the city against the developing tyranny of the secular majority.”

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #344 on: October 06, 2023, 03:47:08 AM »

Offline ExGingi

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I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline yelped

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #346 on: December 07, 2023, 11:18:00 AM »
https://x.com/10downingstreet/status/1732718945063280977
Lol, looking forward to the mass demonstrations and breathless, nonstop worldwide news coverage, NOT.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #347 on: January 01, 2024, 12:16:11 PM »
Israeli Supreme Court led by RETIRED "Justice" Esther Hayout put another big nail in the coffin of Israeli Democracy today!
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline mevinyavin

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #348 on: January 01, 2024, 12:16:59 PM »
Israeli Supreme Court led by RETIRED "Justice" Esther Hayout put another big nail in the coffin of Israeli Democracy today!
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/382899

Beat me to the punch.
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline ExGingi

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I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

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I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline imayid2

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Offline ExGingi

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I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline mevinyavin

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #353 on: February 21, 2024, 08:41:51 AM »
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/385586
Excerpt:
Quote
Justice Solberg agreed with the ruling that the petition should be rejected and emphasized, "Currently, most court judges believe that it is time to reduce the limit of the Reasonableness Clause." He added, "The petition can serve as an adequate precedent for 'self-restraint' on the part of the court, in the spirit of the harsh criticism directed at the Supreme Court over the years, regarding the use of the Reasonableness Clause in the appointment and dismissal of ministers."

Justice Sohlberg took advantage of the ruling to call on his fellow judges to exercise self-restraint when using the Reasonableness Clause, which was the basis of this petition.

"The majority of the judges of this court currently believe that we would do well to reduce the limitations of the Reasonableness Clause, even if this is only a matter of 'self-restraint'; a judicial limitation that we, as the judges, take upon ourselves. This is the opinion of those who were in the past, the minority judges regarding reasonableness, and now – a position that reflects the opinion of the majority. Several of those who were in the majority on this matter agree with this opinion," he said.

“Since a petition has been submitted, seeking to invoke the Reasonableness Clause to order the Prime Minister to dismiss a government minister should be used as a refreshing precedent. We must demarcate the boundaries of the Reasonableness Clause and declare: 'No more!' Even if the ship of Israeli justice has methodically and consistently sailed towards the 'activist' pole over the last 40 years, it is still possible to slightly divert the course of the ship, bit by bit, to a different, more conservative direction, without having to involve any 'revolution' (Paragraph 182 of my opinion on the matter of reasonableness). Rejection of a petition, such as the one before us, may be a first step in the right direction. 'A small step for humanity, a big step for civil law'; So be it," Sohlberg concluded.
Quote from: ExGingi
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Offline Ver hut gazugt

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Offline LongTimeLurker

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #355 on: February 22, 2024, 11:48:59 AM »
Some of the issues mentioned are cultural, it just so happens you're living with the people as opposed to being a work environment.
The army specifically allows people to go and daven, it just so happens your fellow soldiers might be working on something while you go daven as opposed to relaxing. So obviously this can create conflict.
Them all going out and meeting on Friday/Saturday, for sure.
A non shabbat environment, yes, it feels like this sometimes. Can only imagine what it's like now with phones.
Working on shabbat etc.. Technically speaking the army doesn't work on shabbat. But if an officer/commander who is not shomer shabbat is on base, they might do paperwork. But there's no formal work being done - no one is going to make you work.

@yfr bachur
It's been a while since we talked about this פולמוס.
Pre October 7th (while it may not have come across on the forum), I was not happy with the situation but I was more concerned with the haredi male population going to work then anything else.
Post October 7th that's changed obviously, especially if you read the language of the new laws that require extensive lengthening of reserve duty, lengthening of duty for men back to 3 years, etc. 


Way back in June 2023, this question was asked in the this thread:

Is the army experiencing a shortage of personnel?


And the answer is now, unequivocally, direct from the horse's mouth, YES.

Quote
מתוך כל האמור לעיל, על רקע מאורעות התקופה, הרי שנוצר צורך משמעותי בחיזוק ובבניין כלל מערכי כוח האדם העומד לרשות צה"ל. זאת, כאמור, משתי עילות מרכזיות:

ראשית, למרבה הצער, מאות חיילים נפלו באירועי ה-7 לאוקטובר ובלחימה שלאחריהם, רובם לוחמים בסדיר ובמילואים. אלפים נוספים נפצעו והם אינם צפויים לחזור לכשירות מבצעית וללחימה. נוכח כך, נוצר פער משמעותי בסד״כ המבצעי הסדיר של צה״ל. 

שנית, הלחימה במכלול הזירות, הובילה לבחינה מחודשת של הצורך המבצעי ולהערכה מעודכנת על תפיסת ההגנה של צה״ל בגבולות. הנחות העבודה המעודכנות, גורסות כי לפני צה"ל תקופה ממושכת של מצב כוננות ולחימה בעצימות משתנה בכל הגזרות, ובכלל הזירות.

לאור האמור, קיים צורך מבצעי חיוני להגדיל את היקף כוח האדם של חיילים בשירות סדיר בפרק הזמן המיידי.

There's approximately 60k 18-25 yo men of whom let's say 80% could be combat and combat adjacent qualified fairly quickly.. The fact that they haven't come of their own volition to serve is one of the most infuriating things

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #356 on: February 22, 2024, 03:29:36 PM »

There's approximately 60k 18-25 yo men of whom let's say 80% could be combat and combat adjacent qualified fairly quickly.. The fact that they haven't come of their own volition to serve is one of the most infuriating things

Start with Yair Netanyahu first, this will also save the state a few bucks by not having to pay for his security while chilling in Miami.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13076037/Benjamin-Netanyahu-son-Yair-Florida-apartment-Israel-war-Hamas-Gaza.html

Offline LongTimeLurker

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #357 on: February 22, 2024, 03:34:14 PM »
Start with Yair Netanyahu first, this will also save the state a few bucks by not having to pay for his security while chilling in Miami.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13076037/Benjamin-Netanyahu-son-Yair-Florida-apartment-Israel-war-Hamas-Gaza.html

We can have legitimate discussions or we can use red herrings to distract from the  actual issues.

also
הוא התגייס ליחידת דובר צה"ל, שם שירת במרכז ניתוח ידיעות ובקרה (מני"ב), בנציגות היחידה בפיקוד המרכז, ובענף המטפל בתקשורת הבינלאומית

Offline yelped

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #358 on: February 22, 2024, 03:34:44 PM »
Start with Yair Netanyahu first, this will also save the state a few bucks by not having to pay for his security while chilling in Miami.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13076037/Benjamin-Netanyahu-son-Yair-Florida-apartment-Israel-war-Hamas-Gaza.html
Come on. If you want to disagree with him, be on point, not some random shot at a spoiled kid (and the question about him is coming back as a reservist, not initial army draft).

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....
« Reply #359 on: February 22, 2024, 03:38:19 PM »
Come on. If you want to disagree with him, be on point, not some random shot at a spoiled kid (and the question about him is coming back as a reservist, not initial army draft).

You and him don't want to hear my points on the matter :P

Also, many charedim share Yair's service in fighting Israel's information wars on social media..