Israel: Judicial Reform & Future of Democracy....

[LongTimeLurker]

Some of the issues mentioned are cultural, it just so happens you're living with the people as opposed to being a work environment.
The army specifically allows people to go and daven, it just so happens your fellow soldiers might be working on something while you go daven as opposed to relaxing. So obviously this can create conflict.
Them all going out and meeting on Friday/Saturday, for sure.
A non shabbat environment, yes, it feels like this sometimes. Can only imagine what it's like now with phones.
Working on shabbat etc.. Technically speaking the army doesn't work on shabbat. But if an officer/commander who is not shomer shabbat is on base, they might do paperwork. But there's no formal work being done - no one is going to make you work.

[UKinNYS]

Link here to watch hearing today, fascinating even if u dont understand hebrew
https://www.jewishpress.com/news/the-courts/watch-15-judge-panel-to-hear-petitions-calling-to-annul-constitutional-law-govt-gets-1-hour-to-respond/2023/09/12/

Rothmans full speech https://www.jewishpress.com/news/the-courts/judges-heckled-rothmans-arguments-want-to-read-what-he-wanted-to-say-no-problem/2023/09/12/

[ExGingi]

Link here to watch hearing today, fascinating even if u dont understand hebrew
https://www.jewishpress.com/news/the-courts/watch-15-judge-panel-to-hear-petitions-calling-to-annul-constitutional-law-govt-gets-1-hour-to-respond/2023/09/12/

Rothmans full speech https://www.jewishpress.com/news/the-courts/judges-heckled-rothmans-arguments-want-to-read-what-he-wanted-to-say-no-problem/2023/09/12/

13 hours and 40 minutes of a farce, just so that Esther Hayout gets to sit on this and write the decision as her grand finale. 🤮🤮🤮

Such a case deserved more time to prepare, and several sessions to argue. IF at all it deserves to be heard altogether, rather than dismissed for lack of jurisdiction.

Also, where else in the world does a government AG argue against the government at the supreme court without being summarily fired?

[yfr bachur]

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2229368/yom-kippur-backlash-secular-editor-attends-birchas-kohanim-for-1st-time.html

True honest liberal

“If I lived in Jerusalem, I would vote for Meretz in the municipal election to protect the secular minority in the “mitchareid” [becoming Chareidi] city. But since I live in Tel Aviv – I’ll vote for one of the religious parties to protect the traditional minority in the city against the developing tyranny of the secular majority.”

[Moshe Green]

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2229368/yom-kippur-backlash-secular-editor-attends-birchas-kohanim-for-1st-time.html

True honest liberal

Worth buying a few nowadays as an investment. They are becoming exceedingly rare - almost extinct.

[ExGingi]

https://x.com/10downingstreet/status/1732718945063280977

[yelped]

https://x.com/10downingstreet/status/1732718945063280977

Lol, looking forward to the mass demonstrations and breathless, nonstop worldwide news coverage, NOT.

[ExGingi]

Israeli Supreme Court led by RETIRED "Justice" Esther Hayout put another big nail in the coffin of Israeli Democracy today!

[mevinyavin]

Israeli Supreme Court led by RETIRED "Justice" Esther Hayout put another big nail in the coffin of Israeli Democracy today!

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/382899

Beat me to the punch.

[ExGingi]

https://x.com/ptr_dvd/status/1742088767261855853?s=20

[ExGingi]

https://x.com/yeudi_Israeli/status/1742031721137140171?s=20

[imayid2]

https://open.substack.com/pub/anothertakewithsteve/p/resisting-motivated-reasoning

[ExGingi]

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/israel-supreme-court-messes-up-twice

[mevinyavin]

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/385586
Excerpt:

Justice Solberg agreed with the ruling that the petition should be rejected and emphasized, "Currently, most court judges believe that it is time to reduce the limit of the Reasonableness Clause." He added, "The petition can serve as an adequate precedent for 'self-restraint' on the part of the court, in the spirit of the harsh criticism directed at the Supreme Court over the years, regarding the use of the Reasonableness Clause in the appointment and dismissal of ministers."

Justice Sohlberg took advantage of the ruling to call on his fellow judges to exercise self-restraint when using the Reasonableness Clause, which was the basis of this petition.

"The majority of the judges of this court currently believe that we would do well to reduce the limitations of the Reasonableness Clause, even if this is only a matter of 'self-restraint'; a judicial limitation that we, as the judges, take upon ourselves. This is the opinion of those who were in the past, the minority judges regarding reasonableness, and now – a position that reflects the opinion of the majority. Several of those who were in the majority on this matter agree with this opinion," he said.

“Since a petition has been submitted, seeking to invoke the Reasonableness Clause to order the Prime Minister to dismiss a government minister should be used as a refreshing precedent. We must demarcate the boundaries of the Reasonableness Clause and declare: 'No more!' Even if the ship of Israeli justice has methodically and consistently sailed towards the 'activist' pole over the last 40 years, it is still possible to slightly divert the course of the ship, bit by bit, to a different, more conservative direction, without having to involve any 'revolution' (Paragraph 182 of my opinion on the matter of reasonableness). Rejection of a petition, such as the one before us, may be a first step in the right direction. 'A small step for humanity, a big step for civil law'; So be it," Sohlberg concluded.

[Ver hut gazugt]

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/385586
Excerpt:

I guess he starting already.

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-787985

[LongTimeLurker]

Some of the issues mentioned are cultural, it just so happens you're living with the people as opposed to being a work environment.
The army specifically allows people to go and daven, it just so happens your fellow soldiers might be working on something while you go daven as opposed to relaxing. So obviously this can create conflict.
Them all going out and meeting on Friday/Saturday, for sure.
A non shabbat environment, yes, it feels like this sometimes. Can only imagine what it's like now with phones.
Working on shabbat etc.. Technically speaking the army doesn't work on shabbat. But if an officer/commander who is not shomer shabbat is on base, they might do paperwork. But there's no formal work being done - no one is going to make you work.

@yfr bachur
It's been a while since we talked about this פולמוס.
Pre October 7th (while it may not have come across on the forum), I was not happy with the situation but I was more concerned with the haredi male population going to work then anything else.
Post October 7th that's changed obviously, especially if you read the language of the new laws that require extensive lengthening of reserve duty, lengthening of duty for men back to 3 years, etc. 


Way back in June 2023, this question was asked in the this thread:

Is the army experiencing a shortage of personnel?

And the answer is now, unequivocally, direct from the horse's mouth, YES.

מתוך כל האמור לעיל, על רקע מאורעות התקופה, הרי שנוצר צורך משמעותי בחיזוק ובבניין כלל מערכי כוח האדם העומד לרשות צה"ל. זאת, כאמור, משתי עילות מרכזיות:

ראשית, למרבה הצער, מאות חיילים נפלו באירועי ה-7 לאוקטובר ובלחימה שלאחריהם, רובם לוחמים בסדיר ובמילואים. אלפים נוספים נפצעו והם אינם צפויים לחזור לכשירות מבצעית וללחימה. נוכח כך, נוצר פער משמעותי בסד״כ המבצעי הסדיר של צה״ל. 

שנית, הלחימה במכלול הזירות, הובילה לבחינה מחודשת של הצורך המבצעי ולהערכה מעודכנת על תפיסת ההגנה של צה״ל בגבולות. הנחות העבודה המעודכנות, גורסות כי לפני צה"ל תקופה ממושכת של מצב כוננות ולחימה בעצימות משתנה בכל הגזרות, ובכלל הזירות.

לאור האמור, קיים צורך מבצעי חיוני להגדיל את היקף כוח האדם של חיילים בשירות סדיר בפרק הזמן המיידי.

There's approximately 60k 18-25 yo men of whom let's say 80% could be combat and combat adjacent qualified fairly quickly.. The fact that they haven't come of their own volition to serve is one of the most infuriating things

[EliJelly]

There's approximately 60k 18-25 yo men of whom let's say 80% could be combat and combat adjacent qualified fairly quickly.. The fact that they haven't come of their own volition to serve is one of the most infuriating things

Start with Yair Netanyahu first, this will also save the state a few bucks by not having to pay for his security while chilling in Miami.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13076037/Benjamin-Netanyahu-son-Yair-Florida-apartment-Israel-war-Hamas-Gaza.html

[LongTimeLurker]

Start with Yair Netanyahu first, this will also save the state a few bucks by not having to pay for his security while chilling in Miami.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13076037/Benjamin-Netanyahu-son-Yair-Florida-apartment-Israel-war-Hamas-Gaza.html

We can have legitimate discussions or we can use red herrings to distract from the  actual issues.

also
הוא התגייס ליחידת דובר צה"ל, שם שירת במרכז ניתוח ידיעות ובקרה (מני"ב), בנציגות היחידה בפיקוד המרכז, ובענף המטפל בתקשורת הבינלאומית

[yelped]

Start with Yair Netanyahu first, this will also save the state a few bucks by not having to pay for his security while chilling in Miami.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13076037/Benjamin-Netanyahu-son-Yair-Florida-apartment-Israel-war-Hamas-Gaza.html

Come on. If you want to disagree with him, be on point, not some random shot at a spoiled kid (and the question about him is coming back as a reservist, not initial army draft).

[EliJelly]

Come on. If you want to disagree with him, be on point, not some random shot at a spoiled kid (and the question about him is coming back as a reservist, not initial army draft).

You and him don't want to hear my points on the matter

Also, many charedim share Yair's service in fighting Israel's information wars on social media..