Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities

[EliJelly]

"We find ourselves in a position" TM

[Hjay]

https://matzav.com/listen-avoiding-legal-trouble-with-eli-puretz-real-estate-syndicator/

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[jye]

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Probably because of comment such as the ones on theyeshivaworld article.
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/2331469/mailbag-every-single-yeshiva-bochur-needs-to-be-taught-financial-literacy-starting-now.html

[Young explorer]

[Euclid]

Again, this is missing critical details. What were the "transactions" that caused the loss?

[AsherO]

Again, this is missing critical details. What were the "transactions" that caused the loss?

Maybe it’s hard to prove criminal negligence/intent when it comes to the specific transactions that caused the loss, so they went with the fraud/laundering charges.

[jye]

I don’t know the details of this particular case, but many of the confessionals you are hearing are not some yeshiva guy who went overboard with points kind of stuff. Financial literacy is not going to stop someone knowingly engaged in most of what is taking place.

There are people knowingly engaged in behavior that is nowhere near a gray area and sometimes has familial patterns that go back generationally. The title of this thread says it all. The only way to avoid the affinity fraud and constant stories that keep playing out in our community is כבדהו וחשדו. Do your due diligence.

 If there is a whiff of something not kosher run, no matter how enticing the returns. And always assume that anyone no matter who they are can potentially be a cooperating witness potentially engaged in entrapment. The pressure to die so can be enormous and very hard to resist.

[AsherO]

And always assume that anyone no matter who they are can potentially be a cooperating witness potentially engaged in entrapment.

If entrapment is such a big concern, maybe you’re already too far into the grey either way.

[Euclid]

Maybe it’s hard to prove criminal negligence/intent when it comes to the specific transactions that caused the loss, so they went with the fraud/laundering charges.

But why would he plead guilty?

[aygart]

But why would he plead guilty?

There are so many reasons why someone would take a plea deal, but this seems to be one including prison time.

[Yehudaa]

But why would he plead guilty?

I don't know about this case, but from the little I know, there are times that people plead guilty even if they believe they're innocent of that charge. Fighting it can be an extremely long, prohibitively expensive, and morally crushing process.

If the guy thought they'd get him on something ultimately anyway, it doesn't sound unreasonable to plead guilty to something to get it over with.

[Euclid]

If the guy thought they'd get him on something ultimately anyway

Then back to my original question

[AsherO]

But why would he plead guilty?

Didn’t want to risk a trial where the sentence could end up much worse.

[Euclid]

Didn’t want to risk a trial where the sentence could end up much worse.

Going in circles here

Bottom line, if anyone knows what he did - please post the details. Or PM me and I can post the details. I think there's a major toeles harabim knowing this - MS is a gray area, so any information would be beneficial to make sure we operate within the lines of the law.

[aygart]

Going in circles here

Bottom line, if anyone knows what he did - please post the details. Or PM me and I can post the details. I think there's a major toeles harabim knowing this - MS is a gray area, so any information would be beneficial to make sure we operate within the lines of the law.

IIRC this was discussed when he pleaded guilty

[jye]

If entrapment is such a big concern, maybe you’re already too far into the grey either way.

Not necessarily at all. There are plenty of guys who aren’t looking to do anything wrong but if it lands in their lap and someone pressures them they could be tempted. I know guys who were under extreme pressure, for example one guy had a cash flow crunch threatening to sink a project, and a guy comes and says I can save you with all the liquidity you need, I just need you to….
He told him to get lost, but it sure wasn’t easy.

It can be really tough to resist and watch your project go down, even for a guy who isn’t looking to do anything wrong in the first place.

[AsherO]

Not necessarily at all. There are plenty of guys who aren’t looking to do anything wrong but if it lands in their lap and someone pressures them they could be tempted. I know guys who were under extreme pressure, for example one guy had a cash flow crunch threatening to sink a project, and a guy comes and says I can save you with all the liquidity you need, I just need you to….
He told him to get lost, but it sure wasn’t easy.

It can be really tough to resist and watch your project go down, even for a guy who isn’t looking to do anything wrong in the first place.

Chances are the mark won’t necessarily know what shtick is being offered, even if it got posted here.

[Euclid]

IIRC this was discussed when he pleaded guilty

It was discussed with the same outcome: everyone confused about what he actually did.

Here was the first post, and the subsequent follow ups
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=36812.msg2708198#msg2708198 date=1683067003

[simplicity]

It's unclear, and doesn't seem like many (anyone?) know the details. Like is pointed out in the interview, CC "shtick" is quite common - and whatever this guy did should probably be publicized so others can learn what to avoid. He clearly was doing more than typical - but I'm sure there are plenty of people (including here on DDF) who may have done or may be doing something similar.

Publicizing it would be real *toeles harabim* (yes, this is a reference).

DMs open if you feel otherwise.

I got the story, someone took out cash advance on chase cards for a investment….

[jye]

I got the story, someone took out cash advance on chase cards for a investment….

"Mr. -, supported by dozens of friends and family, told the Court how even before the government had begun its investigation, he realized his mistake and worked tirelessly to pay back American Express,'' Vartan told the Asbury Park Press.