Author Topic: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities  (Read 250826 times)

Offline AsherO

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1480 on: December 02, 2024, 09:06:12 PM »
Maybe the guy who was indicted did this? Check out the comments. Lol
https://www.dansdeals.com/blank/scalding-hot-free-credit-card-processing-from-google-through-the-end-of-the-year/

Me and another DDFer did this a very long time ago on an ancient version of Google checkout. IIRC we didn’t get to MS much before Google shut us down. Eventually Google let me back in.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1483 on: December 08, 2024, 09:40:31 AM »
:(
Eastern Union is saying it was guilt by association and they anticipate clearing this up. Hopefully they can.

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1484 on: December 08, 2024, 09:41:41 AM »
Eastern Union is saying it was guilt by association and they anticipate clearing this up. Hopefully they can.
I was wondering what Ira Z.'s cryptic linkedin post last night was about

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1485 on: December 08, 2024, 10:28:01 AM »
Well now we understand how folks who בעצם created 0 value were able to afford such high lifestyles. And Adirei's, וכו וכו, see the panels at the Aguda Convention.

The industry needs to very honest with a raw fact: All a mortgage broker really does (after roping in a client) is forward emails. There are zero barriers to entry, and thus in a capitalist environment with free flowing information fees get compressed to nothing. Case in point for example- Gparency. Economics 101. And even Gparency is just an intermediary. Why not just go direct? If you're smart enough to find a property to buy, you're smart enough to find a lender too. Everyone knows that finding the property is the much more challenging part of the business.

So it never made any sense that there were so many mortgage brokers making so much money, reaching the pinnacles of frum world earning, with no capital at risk. Obviously they were compensated for the “creativity” they brought to the table = fraud. Or shtick. Or whatever they and the client convinced themselves it was. At this point it no longer even matters who exactly in the food chain was responsible for the "bad act", it obviously wasn't a level playing field.

Of course of course 99% of mortgage brokers make an honest living, don't fudge T12's, don't concoct net worth's out of thin air, don't touch internal flips, don't lie to appraisers, don't facilitate liquidity for loan apps, don't fake leases, don't give kickback to GP's etc. etc. But we need to be real about what the earning potential over the long term such a career can offer.

Same goes for title companies.

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1486 on: December 08, 2024, 10:51:24 AM »

Of course of course 99% of mortgage brokers make an honest living, don't fudge T12's, don't concoct net worth's out of thin air, don't touch internal flips, don't lie to appraisers, don't facilitate liquidity for loan apps, don't fake leases, don't give kickback to GP's etc. etc. But we need to be real about what the earning potential over the long term such a career can offer.

Same goes for title companies.
If you are including all of the above items including the last, and settings the bar at complete and absolute honesty both for mortgage brokers and title companies I think there’s a decimal point you left out between the 9 and 9 of 99%.

Offline Fish Tank

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1487 on: December 08, 2024, 10:54:42 AM »
The industry needs to very honest with a raw fact: All a mortgage broker really does (after roping in a client) is forward emails.
Same for every single salesperson in every industry. Its why they get paid the big bucks. "Roping in the client" is the hard part.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1488 on: December 08, 2024, 10:59:08 AM »
If you are including all of the above items including the last, and settings the bar at complete and absolute honesty both for mortgage brokers and title companies I think there’s a decimal point you left out between the 9 and 9 of 99%.

You'd be surprised. I believe 99% of title companies in America don't give kickbacks. It's illegal, and they don't do it.

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1489 on: December 08, 2024, 11:01:28 AM »
You'd be surprised. I believe 99% of title companies in America don't give kickbacks. It's illegal, and they don't do it.
OK and in a fixed price environment they compete on what?

Offline yfr bachur

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1490 on: December 08, 2024, 11:03:01 AM »
Dont all brokers/agents bring value to the table by specialization, knowing the market, and doing the grunt work of going between the parties?
I have zero knowledge of the US market, but in IL a good broker can save significant money.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1491 on: December 08, 2024, 11:03:09 AM »
Same for every single salesperson in every industry. Its why they get paid the big bucks. "Roping in the client" is the hard part.

I beg to differ. In other industries, the salesperson then needs to follow up with a quality product or service, rarely is that just "forwarding emails".

For example, if a flooring company salesperson calls on you and "ropes you in", and then once you get his product delivered you see it isn't the quality you expected for the price you paid, you simply won't use him again. He needs to actually deliver the product you expected him too, and that is where his "value creation" lays.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1492 on: December 08, 2024, 11:04:39 AM »
OK and in a fixed price environment they compete on what?

Basically nothing beyond actually delivering the service with professionalism, which is why typically lawyers do title in-house as an added service.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1493 on: December 08, 2024, 11:07:47 AM »
Dont all brokers/agents bring value to the table by specialization, knowing the market, and doing the grunt work of going between the parties?
I have zero knowledge of the US market, but in IL a good broker can save significant money.

In this case, you're typically buying the apartment through a broker as well, and you know that as an outsider 6,000 miles away, you are going to be paying more than a sophisticated local would, at every stage in the transaction, not just for the mortgage. And many are ok with that knowledge, it's the price they are willing to pay for facilitating such a transaction. (There is also an issue of language barrier).

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1494 on: December 08, 2024, 11:16:49 AM »
Well now we understand how folks who בעצם created 0 value were able to afford such high lifestyles. And Adirei's, וכו וכו, see the panels at the Aguda Convention.

The industry needs to very honest with a raw fact: All a mortgage broker really does (after roping in a client) is forward emails. There are zero barriers to entry, and thus in a capitalist environment with free flowing information fees get compressed to nothing. Case in point for example- Gparency. Economics 101. And even Gparency is just an intermediary. Why not just go direct? If you're smart enough to find a property to buy, you're smart enough to find a lender too. Everyone knows that finding the property is the much more challenging part of the business.
-1
There are so many variables that go into choosing a lender and knowing who will approve based on each property and each buyer. Location, cap rate, LTV, property condition, etc. etc. even assuming no fraud/shtick involved.

Offline yfr bachur

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1495 on: December 08, 2024, 11:21:02 AM »
In this case, you're typically buying the apartment through a broker as well, and you know that as an outsider 6,000 miles away, you are going to be paying more than a sophisticated local would, at every stage in the transaction, not just for the mortgage. And many are ok with that knowledge, it's the price they are willing to pay for facilitating such a transaction. (There is also an issue of language barrier).

Um, I live in EY, and this is pretty much a known thing to locals. It IS the sophistication.
Among other things, the broker brings knowledge of which banks in which cities have incentives/quotas they need to meet and therefore will grant easier terms.
You can shop around yourself, but in a majority of cases the broker will get you a better deal.

With regard to the US
I would guees maybe larger firms can employ someone full time to be their "Broker" but smaller shops prob get decent value from hiring a specialist to deal with all the details.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1496 on: December 08, 2024, 11:22:09 AM »
-1
There are so many variables that go into choosing a lender and knowing who will approve based on each property and each buyer. Location, cap rate, LTV, property condition, etc. etc. even assuming no fraud/shtick involved.

Aha. So some guy in 08701 who had no idea the state you're buying in (in which you spent so much time canvassing to buy that good deal and not get ripped off) even existed until he left Kollel, is the most well-placed advisor for your loan? I assure you that you can do a better job by calling on 3 local banks by yourself, and going from there. And as you spent some time in business I'm sure you know the names of 2-3 bridge and/or agency lenders too. Just pick up the phone and call them.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1497 on: December 08, 2024, 11:28:54 AM »
Um, I live in EY, and this is pretty much a known thing to locals. It IS the sophistication.
Among other things, the broker brings knowledge of which banks in which cities have incentives/quotas they need to meet and therefore will grant easier terms.
You can shop around yourself, but in a majority of cases the broker will get you a better deal.

Ok, you're discussing the average Israeli apartment buyer, and I'll agree with you regarding him. But this goes way beyond "forwarding emails". Information in Israel is more closely guarded by the players, things work on a protekzia system, lenders play more cynical to buyers than American ones do, and the typical client is only transacting once in many years, so the level of sophistication is lower. Bankers are thrilled for someone to do the grunt work for them. And I'm pretty sure that in Israel the "best" mortgage brokers are doing some....

I'm sure that the Israeli-equivalent of the American CRE professional is going direct to the banks and non-banks.

Offline Saver2000

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1498 on: December 08, 2024, 11:31:49 AM »
Aha. So some guy in 08701 who had no idea the state you're buying in (in which you spent so much time canvassing to buy that good deal and not get ripped off) even existed until he left Kollel, is the most well-placed advisor for your loan? I assure you that you can do a better job by calling on 3 local banks by yourself, and going from there. And as you spent some time in business I'm sure you know the names of 2-3 bridge and/or agency lenders too. Just pick up the phone and call them.
You've done this with success?

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities
« Reply #1499 on: December 08, 2024, 11:32:31 AM »
You've done this with success?

Many times, BH