Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities

[Euclid]

Fascinating how typing LM's name into google leads to suggestions such as ponzi scheme, cash advance, Toms River, fraud, etc. But search results turn up nada.

Yeah had the same experience. It's obviously what other people are searching for...
If you google his home address - you'll find the name of his cash advance company.

[yomo]

I'd imagine this would have to be his last hurrah. People are at risk of losing their homes; they aren't going to press charges?

No. I heard that most of the frum guys who invested with him don't want to press charges because it will call attention to the unreported cash they initially invested. Same with all the mafia guys in SI who invested over 8M, also not clean $, so they'd rather just take the loss then have to be scrutinized. Only ones who potentially would want to press charges are those who took out their entire home equity and lost it. That was real legit clean $ and they're paying interest on it while it's gone forever now

[yomo]

Unfortunately because instead of shaming these scoundlers we protect them and hide them therefore they keep doing it again and again.

One of the ganovim involved in the big CRE scam was keeping a low profile and hadn't come to shul. A few members of his kehilla (who had invested with him and lost money but to the best of my knowledge were wealthy so they aren't hurting as a result) went to invite him to come back to shul.

Are they taking responsibility for the victims of future frauds that are going to be perpetrated partially because there is no fear of facing the consequences of getting caught? No reporting to FBI no getting thrown out of shul etc... so the next guy doesn't have the fear of getting caught.

Are you referring to R from Toms River?

[yomo]

Mr. Z? He is apparently in a psychiatric facility in Florida.

Who is Mr. Z? I think you have the wrong name

[yomo]

I hear both sides of the argument, but remember, we are talking about a frum family here. There's a wife and kids. This is a question for experienced rabbonim.

P.S. I didn't hear it from him, so take this with a grain of salt, but I've heard R' Dovid Cohen is of the position that there need to be real consequences to deter future frauds.

I think R' DC is the one who validated the lead investor "E" to start the process of shutting down the "R" syndicator

[yomo]

Yeah had the same experience. It's obviously what other people are searching for...
If you google his home address - you'll find the name of his cash advance company.

Exactly. He was never formally reported or publicly busted in any way so no news on Google

[VacationLover]

Who is Mr. Z? I think you have the wrong name

CC swiping / gift card business that busted 3-4 weeks ago.

Indeed, a separate story.

[yawn]

Who is Mr. Z? I think you have the wrong name

Hearing about several people that let someone swipe $$$$$ on their cards under the pretence of buying discounted gift cards that are left holding the bag once again

[Euclid]

Are you referring to R from Toms River?

I assumed it was his partner. There are legit wealthy people (as opposed to that TR neighborhod ) who Daven in his shul and who invested money with him.

[yawn]

I assumed it was his partner. There are legit wealthy people (as opposed to that TR neighborhod ) who Daven in his shul and who invested money with him.

Is that P from Lakewood?

[Euclid]

This feels like an Israeli news report with all the initials.

[Euclid]

Is that P from Lakewood?

No that's a different story. His partner is SK

[yelped]

Why in the world do we have so many scammers around?! We almost covered the whole alphabet with all the initials flying around here.

[aygart]

Why in the world do we have so many scammers around?! We almost covered the whole alphabet with all the initials flying around here.

Now anyone in that business with those initials has innuendo about him here. Great job guys.

[Shmobaum]

Why in the world do we have so many scammers around?! We almost covered the whole alphabet with all the initials flying around here.

Because as long as everyone is super makpid not to name them in full they’ll have no deterrent to do these fraudulent things.

[yuneeq]

Why in the world do we have so many scammers around?! We almost covered the whole alphabet with all the initials flying around here.

It’s alphabet soup month

[Yehudaa]

Why in the world do we have so many scammers around?!

I don't know the specifics of any of these guys, but my guess it that it's because people are too quick to hand over their money when someone claims to be offering massive returns.

I think it's unlikely that very many of these guys (if any) set out to be scammers, but I have to imagine it's a lot easier for a GP to fall into these schemes when he has a project failing and investors to answer to. At that point the GP is already like a deer in the headlights.

In many of these investments, the numbers on the proforma are only half the story. The people executing the plan are equally- if not more- important. If the Team page in a guy's pitch deck isn't strong or doesn't check out, don't invest. If a guy hasn't been doing this for a long time*, don't hand him your money, and then he won't become a scammer.

None of this is an excuse for a GP to resort to fraud if he's in trouble, but if we're going to learn a lesson from these blowups, this might be it.


*Yes, obviously everyone has to start somewhere, and everyone needs a first investor. But that "somewhere" should be after he has many years of experience in said industry. And those first investors should understand their risk, and maybe get a better deal in exchange for it. They certainly shouldn't be people who are handing over all their life savings, or mortgaging their house to invest with the newbie.

[aygart]

I think it's unlikely that very many of these guys (if any) set out to be scammers,

Big question is the guys who have been involved more than once

[knowitall]

I don't know the specifics of any of these guys, but my guess it that it's because people are too quick to hand over their money when someone claims to be offering massive returns.

I think it's unlikely that very many of these guys (if any) set out to be scammers, but I have to imagine it's a lot easier for a GP to fall into these schemes when he has a project failing and investors to answer to. At that point the GP is already like a deer in the headlights.

In many of these investments, the numbers on the proforma are only half the story. The people executing the plan are equally- if not more- important. If the Team page in a guy's pitch deck isn't strong or doesn't check out, don't invest. If a guy hasn't been doing this for a long time*, don't hand him your money, and then he won't become a scammer.

None of this is an excuse for a GP to resort to fraud if he's in trouble, but if we're going to learn a lesson from these blowups, this might be it.


*Yes, obviously everyone has to start somewhere, and everyone needs a first investor. But that "somewhere" should be after he has many years of experience in said industry. And those first investors should understand their risk, and maybe get a better deal in exchange for it. They certainly shouldn't be people who are handing over all their life savings, or mortgaging their house to invest with the newbie.

I’m an advisor and I can tell you a lot of it comes from one place- Many in our community don’t want to make 10% on their money. It just doesn’t excite them, so they are looking for more. Whenever I tried to explain that higher reward comes with higher risk, most didn’t listen to me. “Risk” was hard to imagine when everyone in shul was talking about their wins. (Many of those were exaggerated, or people only spoke about wins, not losses.)

An “options guy” who tells them he made 40% in 6 months is very exciting.
When a real estate guy talks about his last deal in Atlanta that investors made 60% on their money in 18 months, people get excited. Then tell them they’ll average 10%~ in the S&P and they’ll laugh.

Also, playing the tax loss/depreciation game was another catalyst for investing in RE deals while overlooking fundamentals.

[yawn]

Now anyone in that business with those initials has innuendo about him here. Great job guys.

There have been multiple instances in this thread where people have asked to confirm the second letter of the name and have been told they are incorrect. Additionally, if it leads you to suspect someone, you can Google the name. If Google search doesn’t suggest anything nefarious in the pop downs you can assume he’s in the clear.