Time for some proper due diligence/ independent auditing in our communities

[aygart]

There have been multiple instances in this thread where people have asked to confirm the second letter of the name and have been told they are incorrect. Additionally, if it leads you to suspect someone, you can Google the name. If Google search doesn’t suggest anything nefarious in the pop downs you can assume he’s in the clear.

Until enough people do the same

[yawn]

Until enough people do the same

There’s an ice cube’s change in h**l that enough people here google the same guy with the same keyword to affect Google’s algorithms

[yoohoo]

Can someone do a breakdown of all the scams? I think there is a lot of information on different scams being combined with others.

MCA
2 Real Estate skimmers
CC/gift cards
CRE fraud

[knowitall]

Everyone is so focused on the fraud/scams, that few are paying attention to the millions of dollars that have been lost or will soon be lost in syndications. Many operators bet against the Fed, by taking short term floating debt, betting rates wouldn’t rise more than 1-2%. (Even while futures were showing 2-3% increases, I saw a few operators underwrite less than 1% increases!)

As these rate caps burn off, and these balloon payments become due, many will be forced to bring new equity to the table to refinance, AKA diluting investors. Some will be salvageable by diluting investors, others won’t be as “fortunate”.

Add rising expenses such as insurance costs or tax reassessments to the mix, and the picture isn’t pretty.

I hate to be Dr. Doom, but the sooner investors (and mosdos) accept this reality, the better off they’ll be.

Barring something big breaking, and forcing the Fed to lower rates a few hundred bps, there’s no exit door for many of these “deals”.

[Yakov15]

Everyone is so focused on the fraud/scams, that few are paying attention to the millions of dollars that have been lost or will soon be lost in syndications. Many operators bet against the Fed, by taking short term floating debt, betting rates wouldn’t rise more than 1-2%. (Even while futures were showing 2-3% increases, I saw a few operators underwrite less than 1% increases!)

As these rate caps burn off, and these balloon payments become due, many will be forced to bring new equity to the table to refinance, AKA diluting investors. Some will be salvageable by diluting investors, others won’t be as “fortunate”.

Add rising expenses such as insurance costs or tax reassessments to the mix, and the picture isn’t pretty.

I hate to be Dr. Doom, but the sooner investors (and mosdos) accept this reality, the better off they’ll be.

Barring something big breaking, and forcing the Fed to lower rates a few hundred bps, there’s no exit door for many of these “deals”.

What do you suggest someone that “fell in” do? Cut spending or you mean something more?

[Fish Tank]

I hate to be Dr. Doom, but the sooner investors (and mosdos) accept this reality, the better off they’ll be.

Mosdos ?
They invested the schools money?

[knowitall]

What do you suggest someone that “fell in” do? Cut spending or you mean something more?

It depends on which deal(s) you’re in.  Some have temporary problems that can be fixed.
Others are just kicking the can down the road.
If it’s the latter, stop buying sponsor’s narrative that it’s a temporary problem and all we be fine.
Start behaving as if you’ll never see that money again. Hopefully things will get better, or at least you’ll recover a portion. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.


LPs usually have very limited rights. Depending on the operating agreement, they may get voting rights in certain scenarios. Often these scenarios can have a conflict of interest, where selling now may be better for LPs but worse for the GP. (For example, he’d get a big tax bill.)

[knowitall]

Mosdos ?
They invested the schools money?

I know for sure of one Mosad that put money into syndications, but that wasn’t what I meant.
It’s no secret the frum community is heavily concentrated in RE. Operators, sales brokers, CRE debt brokers, title guys, attorneys, environmental, etc. I’m sure a large percentage of donations and full tuitions come from the RE community. That’s bound to tighten up as CRE transaction volume is down 75% YoY.

And don’t get me started on the typical middle class family’s portfolio being 99% concentrated in RE.

P.S. Many RE guys are doing fine, it’s the riskier/irresponsible ones who are suffering the most. 

[Fish Tank]

I know for sure of one Mosad that put money into syndications, but that wasn’t what I meant.
It’s no secret the frum community is heavily concentrated in RE. Operators, sales brokers, CRE debt brokers, title guys, attorneys, environmental, etc. I’m sure a large percentage of donations and full tuitions come from the RE community. That’s bound to tighten up as CRE transaction volume is down 75% YoY.

Thanks for explaining.

And don’t get me started on the typical middle class family’s portfolio being 99% concentrated in RE.

Why not? 

[yomo]

Lakewood?

[yomo]

I assumed it was his partner. There are legit wealthy people (as opposed to that TR neighborhod ) who Daven in his shul and who invested money with him.

Something off with your story...R kept going to shul...maybe u meant his partner K? Either way, plenty of wealthy guys in R shul

[yomo]

Is that P from Lakewood?

Who is P? Adeirei Hatorah P? Or someone else?
Adeirei will be the bust of the century when it gets unraveled

[aygart]

Who is P? Adeirei Hatorah P? Or someone else?
Adeirei will be the bust of the century when it gets unraveled

Why don't you just write the name?

[yomo]

I’m an advisor and I can tell you a lot of it comes from one place- Many in our community don’t want to make 10% on their money. It just doesn’t excite them, so they are looking for more. Whenever I tried to explain that higher reward comes with higher risk, most didn’t listen to me. “Risk” was hard to imagine when everyone in shul was talking about their wins. (Many of those were exaggerated, or people only spoke about wins, not losses.)

An “options guy” who tells them he made 40% in 6 months is very exciting.
When a real estate guy talks about his last deal in Atlanta that investors made 60% on their money in 18 months, people get excited. Then tell them they’ll average 10%~ in the S&P and they’ll laugh.

Also, playing the tax loss/depreciation game was another catalyst for investing in RE deals while overlooking fundamentals.

That was the key with R&K deals as they were offering crazy high cost seg deals.
That's the main catalyst in general where all the nursing home guys are throwing millions at the Syndication scene

[Euclid]

Something off with your story...R kept going to shul...maybe u meant his partner K? Either way, plenty of wealthy guys in R shul

Yes I meant K. I know wealthy people from K's shul who invested with him.

[yomo]

There have been multiple instances in this thread where people have asked to confirm the second letter of the name and have been told they are incorrect. Additionally, if it leads you to suspect someone, you can Google the name. If Google search doesn’t suggest anything nefarious in the pop downs you can assume he’s in the clear.

None of these guys show up on any Google searches...

[Euclid]

Who is P? Adeirei Hatorah P? Or someone else?
Adeirei will be the bust of the century when it gets unraveled

No not him. This is a small time guy

[knowitall]

That was the key with R&K deals as they were offering crazy high cost seg deals.
That's the main catalyst in general where all the nursing home guys are throwing millions at the Syndication scene

I often find people throwing all caution to the wind when they have a potential tax bill. They’d rather lose $500,000 than pay the IRS $200,000.

[yomo]

Yes I meant K. I know wealthy people from K's shul who invested with him.

Makes sense. I think one shul mate gave 15M

[Euclid]

I often find people throwing all caution to the wind when they have a potential tax bill. They’d rather lose $500,000 than pay the IRS $200,000.

As @ExGingi has said in the past: "it's the tail wagging the dog"