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[EliJelly]

What in the world does זורקים שבת mean?

You didn't hear it? The badchan says git shabbos, after calling up to dance. Here's another (more famous) reason.

https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/reader/reader.aspx?sfid=35579#p=104&fitMode=fitwidth&hlts=&ocr=

[Definitions2]

... is disturbing.

If that's what's disturbing you then you have quite a strong stomach.
My whole body is disturbed immensely by everything. If most aren't then I guess it's me that needs to see an gastroenterologist.

[imayid2]

the allowing the זרע to emanate from the מוח

A bit unrelated, but where do you see this in the Zohar?

[imayid2]

Look up the זוהר he quotes. It is very much reflecting the physical act that both involves חימום כל האיברים as well as the pleasure of the נקיבה in allowing the זרע to emanate from the מוח and the participation of כל האיברים. Yes it is referring to the heavenly process tat this reflects but the fact that the כלה and צדיק are performing an earthly act to cause תיקונים in the heavenly spheres that are clearly normally the result of the חתן physically consummating the marriage with the כלה is disturbing.

These types of metaphors are basic Kabbalah language to describe lofty ideas. I’m not sure why you have an issue with what he’s saying more than the Zohar itself. Either way I don’t think you’re understanding properly what he’s trying to say. He’s not intimating any such parallel תיקונים that you think he’s alluding to.

[imayid2]

Look up the זוהר he quotes.

He’s referencing that Zohar for what he refers to multiple times in his sefer סוד כתיש כתישין, which he explains elsewhere is that the שכינה infers it’s השפעה from מידת יסוד and that the tzadik who represents מידת יסוד plays a role in causing that שפע.

[imayid2]

You didn't hear it?

I admit to not paying full attention and not understanding much of what was said 

The badchan says git shabbos, after calling up to dance. Here's another (more famous) reason.

https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/reader/reader.aspx?sfid=35579#p=104&fitMode=fitwidth&hlts=&ocr=

Interesting!
זורקים is a strange way to describe people talking but ok.

[EliJelly]

Interesting!
זורקים is a strange way to describe people talking but ok.

Strange term indeed

[cmey]

He’s referencing that Zohar for what he refers to multiple times in his sefer סוד כתיש כתישין, which he explains elsewhere is that the שכינה infers it’s השפעה from מידת יסוד and that the tzadik who represents מידת יסוד plays a role in causing that שפע.

כמדומני more accurately through מידת היסוד from above יסוד which ultimately has its שורש in רצון. The צדיק is מידת היסוד.
רחל is מקבל from יעקב not יוסף.
 I hear. I’m not familiar with the rest of the Sefer. If his כוונה is to be משמח the חתן AND כלה so the שמחה should aid in their חיבור and his כוונה is כי כל בשמים ובארץ- דאחיד בשמיא וארעא then I misunderstood him.

[EliJelly]

רחל is מקבל from יעקב not יוסף.

The term משפיע is actually always associated with מדת יוסף, the צדיק יסוד עולם is the mashpia, ויוסף הוא המשביר.

[cmey]

The term משפיע is actually always associated with מדת יוסף, the צדיק יסוד עולם is the mashpia, ויוסף הוא המשביר.

True but מידת צדיק is merely a conduit for that שפע which comes from יעקב.

[cmey]

מענין לענין there’s a fascinating חכמת מנוח in כתובות who explains כיצד מרקדין that they would dance in circles that contracted and expanded like we do. When they were within earshot of the חתן they would say כלה נאה but to each other they would say וחסודה - she’s ugly so as not to think about her.

[Philosophypsych]

That is some source you quoted.

I’m not familiar with this Sefer but this seems disturbing to the extreme. We know that the חתן וכלה are a dugmah of the shechina and other aspects of the manifestations of הקב״ה presence and that the intimate act that takes place when the marriage is consummated with all of its components is a dugma of the processes that occur in the upper world that parallel this holy act, and with the right כוונות goes even further.

This Sefer is suggesting that the point of the mitzvah tantz is that not the חתן, but the motion of the צדיק dancing with the kallah is replicating the heavenly parallel of the thrusts that take place during intimacy that give the נקיבה pleasure and allow the זרע to enter the נקיבה with the potency that it should. The one dancing with the כלה is making her happy (pleasure) and thereby parallels the heavenly equivalent of the “Eiver” that forms heavenly connections so that the heavenly ״זרע״ can do its job.

I certainly understand that there is a heavenly world that parallels ours and much of the mundane intimate acts reflect pure kedusha and תיקונים above, but that is the realm of the חתן with HIS כלה.

To suggest that others dancing with the כלה by the mitzvah tantz are engaged in an act that that has all the parallel elements of the intimate act is very disturbing.

JMHO if you're talking about a chasidish safer, you need to understand that some of the central themes of chassidus are totally new ideas, the entire chidush of the Baal Shem is basically that ein od milvado, and that even the keilim itself are really light, and therefore even our midos Rao's aren't inherently bad, and so we are literally being mesaken oilams with our emotions/ שבע מידות and someone who's in touch and lives such a system is then a tzaddik he's like a heavenly chariot similar to האבות הן הן המרכבה, and the Shechinah manifests itself in the world thru these vehicles, so yes the idea that a rebbe cud do simple acts and have intentions and fix worlds thru his clapping on the table with אהבה being up and יראה being down is ofcourse new stuff but this is the whole revolution, they say Baal Shem is the סוד of the פרדס mehalchim in Ari... But don't see why this is a specifically problematic piece according to their mehalech.

[imayid2]

כמדומני more accurately through מידת היסוד from above יסוד which ultimately has its שורש in רצון. The צדיק is מידת היסוד.
רחל is מקבל from יעקב not יוסף.

Well yes מידת יסוד  is the conduit for the מידות עליונים. But it’s not really accurate to say that רחל which is מלכות is not mekabel from יוסף as יסוד is a המשך of תפארת specifically.
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9737&st=&pgnum=53&hilite=

[imayid2]

I hear. I’m not familiar with the rest of the Sefer. If his כוונה is to be משמח the חתן AND כלה so the שמחה should aid in their חיבור and his כוונה is כי כל בשמים ובארץ- דאחיד בשמיא וארעא then I misunderstood him.

Definitely closer. The חיבור הגשמי of the חתן וכלה is not really being discussed. It is all metaphorical and referring to the system of מידות which are modeled after it.

The כלה represents מלכות = שכינה תתאה, and the meraked represents יסוד who is mekasher the higher מידות and delivers their השפעות.

But as he explicitly notes the role of the tzadik is בבחינת אבר מת, and his role is to be מתעורר רצון elsewhere, in this case to be תעורר דיצה וחדוה ואהבה ואחוה between the חתן וכלה in all the spheres. (Probably has to do with יוסף/יסוד being a conduit from יעקב/תפארת to רחל/מלכות.)

So to reiterate, the סוד כתיש כתישין he invokes has zero to do with the physical consummating of the marriage, and is a concept used in other settings as well which refers to the צדיק/יסוד properly delivering השפעות to מלכות/שכינה/רחל/כלה/שבת.

[yelped]

Which mida makes DDF a conduit for learning Kabalah in the open like this?

[imayid2]

Which mida makes DDF a conduit for learning Kabalah in the open like this?

It is not open, it’s blocked by netfree

[cmey]

Well yes מידת יסוד  is the conduit for the מידות עליונים. But it’s not really accurate to say that רחל which is מלכות is not mekabel from יוסף as יסוד is a המשך of תפארת specifically.
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9737&st=&pgnum=53&hilite=

מידת היסוד is the חיבור of משפיע ומקבל. When that מידה is in its proper מצב -יהוסף it allows the שפע from תפארת to reach its proper place in מלכות.
יעקב and יסף are both called אות ואו . The ואו of יוסף is a ואו זעירה which is a vav of חיבור (vavs function is chibur). Specifically יוסף is represented in the מילוי א in אות ואו which is perhaps why through him there are 12 שבטים but in a sense 13.
אלה תולדות יעקב יוסף. כל מה שאירע וכו׳ משם רואה אבן ישראל - אב ובן
So to look at that מידה as a משפיע is correct but only in a sense. It’s function is to faithfully give over from above without any outside אחיזות.

[imayid2]

מידת היסוד is the חיבור of משפיע ומקבל. When that מידה is in its proper מצב -יהוסף it allows the שפע from תפארת to reach its proper place in מלכות.
יעקב and יסף are both called אות ואו . The ואו of יוסף is a ואו זעירה which is a vav of חיבור (vavs function is chibur). Specifically יוסף is represented in the מילוי א in אות ואו which is perhaps why through him there are 12 שבטים but in a sense 13.
אלה תולדות יעקב יוסף. כל מה שאירע וכו׳ משם רואה אבן ישראל - אב ובן
So to look at that מידה as a משפיע is correct but only in a sense. It’s function is to faithfully give over from above without any outside אחיזות.

Ok I think we’re on the same page here

[cmey]

Since it’s חנוכה and כנודע the פרשיות of יוסף do not coincidentally come out by חנוכה, it’s brought down that יוסף is gematria ציון because יוסף is the צ that is כנגד יון which uses the ואו החיבור to try to take that חכמה which is related to the יוד and corrupt that השפעה so it goes specifically to the נון that represents the מלכות הרשעה. This is represented by the אותיות י׳ו׳ן׳.
יוסף is the היפך in that he is the ואו אות אמת that faithfully is a a conduit for the השפעות from ראש to סוף.

[imayid2]

Since it’s חנוכה and כנודע the פרשיות of יוסף do not coincidentally come out by חנוכה, it’s brought down that יוסף is gematria ציון because יוסף is the צ that is כנגד יון which uses the ואו החיבור to try to take that חכמה which is related to the יוד and corrupt that השפעה so it goes specifically to the נון that represents the מלכות הרשעה. This is represented by the אותיות י׳ו׳ן׳.
יוסף is the היפך in that he is the ואו אות אמת that faithfully is a a conduit for the השפעות from ראש to סוף.

Also begamtria אנטיוכס and מלך יון
From elsewhere in מאיר עיני חכמים