Kosher J(esus)

[jj1000]

Nu any opinions?

some reference http://www.amazon.com/Kosher-Jesus-Shmuley-Boteach/dp/9652295787

http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=40880

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/post_2875_b_1216383.html

[Dan]

http://www.shul.co.uk/readArticle.php?article=83

[HelpMe]

Very interesting read. I never understood the logic of suppressing information. Put it out there in the open and expose it for what it is. Coming from someone who attended Roman Catholic schools I have heard both sides on this argument (banning information) many times.

[boruch]

I attended a farbrengen (in Monsey a couple of months back) by someone (forgot his name) who used to be a priest and became jewish. He had fascinating and unbelievable stuff to tell.

[WhyAich]

I attended a farbrengen (in Monsey a couple of months back) by someone (forgot his name) who used to be a priest and became jewish. He had fascinating and unbelievable stuff to tell.

Yakov Parisi. Ya he's awesome!

[WhyAich]

Very interesting read. I never understood the logic of suppressing information. Put it out there in the open and expose it for what it is. Coming from someone who attended Roman Catholic schools I have heard both sides on this argument (banning information) many times.

It's pretty, I mean VERY simple. If you touch mud you get dirty. If we expose everyone to this people will get lost

[HelpMe]

It's pretty, I mean VERY simple. If you touch mud you get dirty. If we expose everyone to this people will get lost

It would seem that is not putting much faith in people.

ETA: What if the Catholic Church banned the books/literature that Yaakov Parisi read that lead him to convert to Judaism?

[Dan]

Yakov Parisi. Ya he's awesome!

Lchaim, Lchaim Yaakov Efraim!

[WhyAich]

Lchaim, Lchaim Yaakov Efraim!

Lol

[WhyAich]

It would seem that is not putting much faith in people.

ETA: What if the Catholic Church banned the books/literature that Yaakov Parisi read that lead him to convert to Judaism?

That's what they should do. If I were a Christian Cv"s I wouldnt want my kids reading that either.

If I trusted that they were strong enough in specific cases I would allow it.

[mclovin]

That's what they should do.

+1 exactly what i wanted to say

[dirah]

Since it is being brought up, I have been following Boteach's articles about this, and semantics aside, he only has seemed to present six "arguments".
1. Book censure is anti-intellectual, close-minded, contempt for scholarship, and against the spirit of Judaism.
If this doesn't make this “scholar” an ignoramus, I don’t know what does. I would expect a “scholar” to know about “Ben Sirah” and other “Seforim Chitzonim” prohibited by Chazal. This venue is not the place for detailed discussion about this, but for a detailed summary about this can be found in Encyclopedia Talmudis – “Chochmos Chitzonios”.
2. Boteach attacks Rabbi Schochet for referring to him as J, and not as J****, and inconsistency about the issue.
Again ignorance. The GR”A (Y”D 147:3) writes regarding the prohibition of pronouncing the names of other “gods” (the loose translation is mine): “There is no prohibition other than with a name given as a divine name, but it is permitted to pronounce the name of a person given a common name even after he is subsequently deified … and in many instances in the Talmud, the name of that man and his apostles are mentioned”.
Those words speak volumes: It is permitted to pronounce the name of that man. The intention is pretty clear, if you don’t need to say the name, it is inappropriate for us to do so.
3. His Jerusalem Post editorial cites a whole shopping list of hateful comments from bloggers as proof that the ultra-orthodox are radicalizing and becoming more close-minded.
Is this guy for real… judging a culture by blog comments? I wonder what he thinks of the DDF community?
4. Some of his opinions accord with that of the Yavetz.
… and contrary to the opinions of every single other Rishon and Achron! The Yavetz also had other ultra-controversial stances, and his opinions on these matters are rejected by his contemporaries and successors.
5. His book will earn us more Christian friends.
Where I come from, they say not to discuss certain things at the dinner table, one of them being religion. There is a reason for that. And I don't think anyone appreciates an outsider (i.e. a member of another religion,) claiming to have the "real inside story" of that religion.
6. His book will help combat missionaries.
The missionaries must be laughing. They prey on ignorant people, and tell them "you can still be Jewish - just believe in J, and that will make you even more Jewish". Now, they can add, "Look, even an 'orthodox rabbi' says so!" And since missionaries are masters of distortion, the details of what Boteach said will not matter, they will (quite easily) twist his words to get their distorted message through to their target audience.
In conclusion:
I just checked out the bookcover on Amazaon, and in this case, I think that you can judge the book by its cover. Above the title, Kosher J, it states that Boteach is also the author of Kosher S**. Pure sensationalist.
I might just add that even in his Yeshivah days, it was an “open secret” that Boteach kept a New Testament under his bed. Its his “Girsa DYankusa”.

[YankyDoodle]

Since it is being brought up, I have been following Boteach's articles about this, and semantics aside, he only has seemed to present six "arguments".
1. Book censure is anti-intellectual, close-minded, contempt for scholarship, and against the spirit of Judaism.
If this doesn't make this “scholar” an ignoramus, I don’t know what does. I would expect a “scholar” to know about “Ben Sirah” and other “Seforim Chitzonim” prohibited by Chazal. This venue is not the place for detailed discussion about this, but for a detailed summary about this can be found in Encyclopedia Talmudis – “Chochmos Chitzonios”.
2. Boteach attacks Rabbi Schochet for referring to him as J, and not as J****, and inconsistency about the issue.
Again ignorance. The GR”A (Y”D 147:3) writes regarding the prohibition of pronouncing the names of other “gods” (the loose translation is mine): “There is no prohibition other than with a name given as a divine name, but it is permitted to pronounce the name of a person given a common name even after he is subsequently deified … and in many instances in the Talmud, the name of that man and his apostles are mentioned”.
Those words speak volumes: It is permitted to pronounce the name of that man. The intention is pretty clear, if you don’t need to say the name, it is inappropriate for us to do so.
3. His Jerusalem Post editorial cites a whole shopping list of hateful comments from bloggers as proof that the ultra-orthodox are radicalizing and becoming more close-minded.
Is this guy for real… judging a culture by blog comments? I wonder what he thinks of the DDF community?
4. Some of his opinions accord with that of the Yavetz.
… and contrary to the opinions of every single other Rishon and Achron! The Yavetz also had other ultra-controversial stances, and his opinions on these matters are rejected by his contemporaries and successors.
5. His book will earn us more Christian friends.
Where I come from, they say not to discuss certain things at the dinner table, one of them being religion. There is a reason for that. And I don't think anyone appreciates an outsider (i.e. a member of another religion,) claiming to have the "real inside story" of that religion.
6. His book will help combat missionaries.
The missionaries must be laughing. They prey on ignorant people, and tell them "you can still be Jewish - just believe in J, and that will make you even more Jewish". Now, they can add, "Look, even an 'orthodox rabbi' says so!" And since missionaries are masters of distortion, the details of what Boteach said will not matter, they will (quite easily) twist his words to get their distorted message through to their target audience.
In conclusion:
I just checked out the bookcover on Amazaon, and in this case, I think that you can judge the book by its cover. Above the title, Kosher J, it states that Boteach is also the author of Kosher S**. Pure sensationalist.
I might just add that even in his Yeshivah days, it was an “open secret” that Boteach kept a New Testament under his bed. Its his “Girsa DYankusa”.

Well thought out post until the last bit... No need to demean him personally especially based on some "open secret."

ETA: What if the Catholic Church banned the books/literature that Yaakov Parisi read that lead him to convert to Judaism?

That would be a riot indeed, the Catholic Church banning the bible!

[dirah]

Well thought out post until the last bit... No need to demean him personally especially based on some "open secret."

My point is not to demean him personally.
Rather, my point is that Boteach is a person who has always done things "his way" from the beginning, and is "anti-establishment" for the sake of it. I think this is quite relevant.
Just to clarify regarding this "open secret", I have first hand knowledge of this, as I spent some of my Yeshivah days with Boteach. It was "open" in the sense that some of the Bochurim knew about it, it was a "secret" in the sense that the Hanholoh did not know about it.

[Dan]

That would be a riot indeed, the Catholic Church banning the bible!

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[elig770]

For what it's worth... I think Shmulie just wants to sell books. The titles sells itself, but he wanted to get people like Lubavitch, who are world wide to help spread the word. But they'll never promote such a book so you do the next best thing and get them to ban it so you can feed off the negative attention... I think everything is going just the way he planed it.

[AsherO]

For what it's worth... I think Shmulie just wants to sell books. The titles sells itself, but he wanted to get people like Lubavitch, who are world wide to help spread the word. But they'll never promote such a book so you do the next best thing and get them to ban it so you can feed off the negative attention... I think everything is going just the way he planed it.

I've heard this several times. I also heard from someone who knows SB well and has read the book that he (the person who knows SB) doesn't think it'll sell much once the hype is gone.

[HelpMe]

That would be a riot indeed, the Catholic Church banning the bible!

Not sure if I understand your point. If the only book someone had was the Bible it would be pretty hard to have a different point of view.

Knowledge is power and when someone tries to suppress you from seeking that knowledge they must have something to hide. What I see as a better solution is state the reasons you should not read the book. Then an informed decision can be made by each individual.

[jj1000]

If the only book someone had was the Bible it would be pretty hard to have a different point of view.

I am pretty sure there is more than one way to learn the bible.

[YG]

That would be a riot indeed, the Catholic Church banning the bible!

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1K!