About that "jewish" wedding

[S209]

I guess you can say the same about this "wedding" 2 girls trying so hard to remain in the boundaries of Judaism.

It's exactly the mentality above that I use talking in shul as a comparison.

It's wrong
Every one knows it's wrong
It's insulting to God
It vexes most rabbanim
It disrupts the prayer
Many do it
Without shame
In public

Why ? Because they justify to themselves "but I came to shul.. I'm trying"

My father would kick them all out... It's why he rarely attends the shul he was instrumental in founding.

It's just ironic watching folks get all worked up about what goes on elsewhere and in their own 4 Amos eh well what can you do.

I'm still vexed at the absolute chutzpah of the 2 visitors who talked non stop when visiting here and I kindly asked them to be quiet or talk in the lobby, guy said "you're right, not talking any more" and just proceeded to talk with his shtreimel wearing friend for next 20 minutes

A wedding is a celebration of this event (and there is a picture of them holding a rainbow together symbolizing the movement). Someone talking in Shul is engaging in a private aveira. Everyone does aveiros. Nobody should be publicly celebrating an aveira. It might be alright to honor *someone who does an aveira* but it’s not ok to honor *the aveira*.

The difference is clear.

ETA: Removed several comments that might be construed as ad hominem attacks.

[aygart]

I guess you can say the same about this "wedding" 2 girls trying so hard to remain in the boundaries of Judaism.

How are you seeing this poretz geder as trying so hard to remain in the boudaries of Judaism? If they can't control their urges for this aveira that is one thing, but trying to make it fit into judaism as to destroy juadaism for their pleasure not to remain in its boundaries.
This is a theme that you very regularly harp on. Talking in shul is a terrible thing but does not automatically become relevant to every other religious discussion out there.

[aygart]

And I might even buy the argument that Kiddush Club is a celebration of this culture.

I wouldn't call it a celebration of it but rather an institutionalization of it.

[Dan]

I wouldn't call it a celebration of it but rather an institutionalization of it.

6 of one, half dozen of the other. And what would you call a wedding?
Either way, this really belongs in a new thread.

[aygart]

6 of one, half dozen of the other. And what would you call a wedding?
Either way, this really belongs in a new thread.

Agreed, but either way the wedding is much more of a poretz geder. Talking in shul has unfortunately been an issue for hundreds if not thousands of years.

[Dan]

Agreed, but either way the wedding is much more of a poretz geder. Talking in shul has unfortunately been an issue for hundreds if not thousands of years.

No doubt.

[aygart]

Lets be clear here, the big issue here is not as mush any aveiros done by 2 individuals, as horrible as that is. The issue is how the aveira was celebrated by a crowd of seemingly frum people. והפורץ גדר ינשכנו נחש

The protzei geder include the caterers, photographers, musicians, and attendees. Thye all deserve to be shunned.

[aygart]

No doubt.

Definitely at the times of the Tosfos Yom Tov

[Definitions]

...
Many do it
...
Why ? Because they justify to themselves "but I came to shul.. I'm trying"

I don't agree with this reason. I think the reason is always a lack of emunah. That's my motto. Change my mind.

[moko]

The protzei geder include the caterers, photographers, musicians, and attendees. Thye all deserve to be shunned.

there are serious legal ramifications in many states.
This requires a serious shaila.
But in all this, comparing talking in shul no matter how widespread is ridiculous.
We don't celebrate or institutionalize talking in shul.
In fact just the opposite. There's been a campaign for several years to stop it. https://www.stopthetalking.org/.

This is not about an individual's failings or personal life.
Society as a whole.is definitely here to celebrate and promote full acceptance of the LGBTQ lifestyle.
The original post that sparked this conversation wasn't about this wedding  but about the post from the post (apparently from one of the wedding party) regarding livesaving donations to an organization which attempts  to normalize and celebrate the LGBTQ lifestyle.

[Dan]

We don't celebrate or institutionalize talking in shul.

What is kiddush club then?

[moko]

What is kiddush club then?

not in my circles and i don't believe that takes place in the shul in any circles.
That's tefilah issue. Similar to showing up in shul for aleinu
and if then, celebrating and promoting a yeherag val yaavor lifestyle to kiddush club???

[Alexsei]

If two wrongs don't make a right try Three

[aygart]

there are serious legal ramifications in many states.
This requires a serious shaila.

Which also become a question for the hechsher and presumably some have already dealt with.

[aygart]

i don't believe that takes place in the shul in any circles.

I hope they haven't gone so far to make these in shuls.

[imayid2]

This guy had an interesting take. I read the pamphlet, it’s intriguing. He isn’t condoning it, rather theorizing why the admonitions of hundreds and hundreds of years never seem to work.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mKULeU4_PvW1D6ogWwOKReD6nanIvPr_/view?usp=drivesdk

“The point which I have attempted to make, and which trust I have made, is that, distressing as this lack of decorum may be, it is not the paramount problem with which Judaism is confronted“

[Dan]

not in my circles and i don't believe that takes place in the shul in any circles.
That's tefilah issue. Similar to showing up in shul for aleinu
and if then, celebrating and promoting a yeherag val yaavor lifestyle to kiddush club???

Obviously it's not comparable, but let's not pretend that it's not celebrating/institutionalizing talking during shul.

[moko]

Obviously it's not comparable, but let's not pretend that it's not celebrating/institutionalizing talking during shul.

unfortunately it is being compared and none of the shuls that I davened at from childhood through now had a kiddush club and it's on the rabbi to ban it.
As far as talking in shul in general, there's been a fairly large campaign in my circles to stop the talking. That's about the complete opposite as you can get from celebrating/ promoting

[Euclid]

(proposed title change: from kiddushin club to kiddush club)

[Alexsei]

@chevron is talking in shul a d'oraysa? a d'rabanan?