About that "jewish" wedding

[chevron]

@chevron is talking in shul a d'oraysa? a d'rabanan?

The text continues with stories of Rabbinic holy men and their experiences within the Divine at Shaf ve-Yativ: The father of Samuel and Levi were sitting in the synagogue of Shaf ve-Yativ in Nehardea. The Shekhinah came, they heard the tumult and they rose and left. Rav Sheshet [who was blind] was once sitting in the synagogue of Shaf ve-Yativ and the Shekhinah came. He did not leave, and the ministering angels came and threatened him. He turned to Him and said: Sovereign of the Universe, if one is afflicted and one is not afflicted, who gives way to whom? God thereupon said to them: leave him. 62 The pericope continues with a medley of traditions on the significance of synagogues in Babylonia: “I have been to them a small sanctuary” (Ez. 11:16). Rabbi Samuel son of Isaac said: This refers to the synagogues and study houses [which are in Babylonia]…. Rava expounded: “Why is it written: ‘Lord you were a habitation [ma’on] for us’ (Ps. 90:1)? Rava said: At first I would study at home and pray in the synagogue. Once I heard this which David said: “Lord, I love the habitation [maon] of your house” (Ps. 26:. I have studied only in the synagogue. Rabbi Eleazar son of Qappar said: In the [messianic] future the synagogues in Babylonia will be set in place in the Land of Israel.. ..

If you believe in the divine origin of the Torah and you talk in shul. You're a naval birshut hatorah.

It's not about decorum... It's not a library .  It's multiples of people talking during prayer.

You insult God.

If someone wore a rainbow talis to shul, they'd throw him out... But in some shuls, 30-40% of the congregation talks during kadish, krias hatorah and chazaras hashatz...

Hence one chabad shul is known as "conversation.... Ly"

[chevron]

Let me be clear, I'm not trolling. You can be genuinely shocked and angered by a violation of halacha.

My issue is, you have a violation of halacha daily..  affecting much of the Jewish community and it's shrugged off or simply defended.

[Mordyk]

Let me be clear, I'm not trolling. You can be genuinely shocked and angered by a violation of halacha.

My issue is, you have a violation of halacha daily..  affecting much of the Jewish community and it's shrugged off or simply defended.

No it's not shrugged off or defended, although it should probably be called out more often. If you ask the individual they will probably acknowledge a sense of wrong doing, everyone has a yetzer Hora. ask these two girls if they did wrong, they wont acknowledge it.  They are celebrating the wrong doing

[moko]

Let me be clear, I'm not trolling. You can be genuinely shocked and angered by a violation of halacha.

My issue is, you have a violation of halacha daily..  affecting much of the Jewish community and it's shrugged off or simply defended.

not a single person here defended it besides your alter ego.
You are clearly a delusional individual

[haltkup]

What is kiddush club then?

how is Kiddush club promoting anything against Halacha or worse yiddeshkeit? Maybe I BH don’t know what it is. But I had the impression it’s an official social scene drinking party for after davening which in theory maybe ok as it promotes achdus and more people joining teffila but they have become out of control with folks coming home stone cold drunk and worse.

[chevron]

how is Kiddush club promoting anything against Halacha or worse yiddeshkeit? Maybe I BH don’t know what it is. But I had the impression it’s an official social scene drinking party for after davening which in theory maybe ok as it promotes achdus and more people joining teffila but they have become out of control with folks coming home stone cold drunk and worse.

Most kiddish clubs start during krias hatorah, with more joining during haftorah and ends somewhat at the beginning or middle of musaf

[Something Fishy]

This whole conversation is ridiculous and repetitive.

Fact A: Talking in shul is horrible. Whether it's better or worse than other things, whether or not it's a "celebration", etc. etc. etc. is a completely different topic. And all this has nothing to do with ->

Fact B: This wedding shattered a line which has never been crossed before and as such is worthy of discussion, condemnation, and quite frankly, horror.

Anyone feel free to make a new thread about talking during davening, and please stop comparing the two issues.

[S209]

it's shrugged off or simply defended.

Source?

[YitzyS]

Let me be clear, I'm not trolling. You can be genuinely shocked and angered by a violation of halacha.

My issue is, you have a violation of halacha daily..  affecting much of the Jewish community and it's shrugged off or simply defended.

There already is a thread on DDF "Talking in Shul."

And if fact, it was actually started by YOU, so you should be aware of it's existence.

Please stop sullying this forum with your terrible conflations.

[EliJelly]

What is kiddush club then?

"Kiddush club" is a slang term applied to an informal group of Jewish adults who congregate during Shabbat (Sabbath) prayer services to make kiddush over wine or liquor, and socialize. Traditionally it has been a male-bonding experience, especially in Orthodox communities.

Custom
Kiddush clubs are a fixture of Saturday morning shacharit services in Orthodox, and particularly Modern Orthodox synagogues.[1] In a typical kiddush club, members of the "club"–generally men–leave the synagogue's prayer hall during either the Torah reading, the haftarah reading or the rabbi's sermon which generally follows it, and go to another room in the synagogue to drink and socialize. [2] Depending on the club, participants may or may not return to the prayer hall for mussaf, the remaining portion of the prayer service.

(B"H had to look that up to see the exact custom)
How is "leaving the synagogue" a celebration of talking during davening? 

[aygart]

(B"H had to look that up to see the exact custom)
How is "leaving the synagogue" a celebration of talking during davening?

I wouldn't call it a celebration of it but rather an institutionalization of it.

6 of one, half dozen of the other.

[LNS]

Let me be clear, I'm not trolling. You can be genuinely shocked and angered by a violation of halacha.

My issue is, you have a violation of halacha daily..  affecting much of the Jewish community and it's shrugged off or simply defended.

maybe its time for you to switch shuls

[S209]

Aside from the obvious distinctions and total lack of relevance, just mentioning another sin- even if they were totally equal- in this thread is the worst example of “but officer” I have ever seen and does nothing other than minimize what happened here. I will bli neder stop engaging with this discussion which serves no purpose in the current thread other than as a distraction.

[LNS]

https://truth613.substack.com/p/dont-lose-your-chance-take-a-stand

from hefkervelt

[skyguy918]

... which has never been crossed before and as such is worthy of discussion, condemnation, and quite frankly, horror.

Perhaps fortunate that it wasn't widely known, but unfortunately it has definitely been crossed before.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/small-but-growing-number-of-us-orthodox-rabbis-officiating-same-sex-weddings/

You can quibble with how 'frum' any of these people are, but they're (mostly) claiming the Orthodox label while doing these things.

[Dan]

https://truth613.substack.com/p/dont-lose-your-chance-take-a-stand

from hefkervelt

https://archive.is/pOTgh

[EliJelly]

Perhaps fortunate that it wasn't widely known, but unfortunately it has definitely been crossed before.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/small-but-growing-number-of-us-orthodox-rabbis-officiating-same-sex-weddings/

You can quibble with how 'frum' any of these people are, but they're (mostly) claiming the Orthodox label while doing these things.

Vomitable

[liosac]

A sign of the times and how low some segments of the frum community are holding: a forum for supposedly frum mothers has banned all talk of the “wedding” and the topic in general because so many supposedly frum women were defending these עוברי עבירה that the forum discussions got too heated so the topic was banned.

[Dan]

A sign of the times and how low some segments of the frum community are holding: a forum for supposedly frum mothers has banned all talk of the “wedding” and the topic in general because so many supposedly frum women were defending these עוברי עבירה that the forum discussions got too heated so the topic was banned.

Blame the community or blame the leadership?

[Alexsei]

A sign of the times and how low some segments of the frum community are holding: a forum for supposedly frum mothers has banned all talk of the “wedding” and the topic in general because so many supposedly frum women were defending these עוברי עבירה that the forum discussions got too heated so the topic was banned.

Censorship is a very sensitive thing, I'm sure @Dan xab attest