About that "jewish" wedding

[Something Fishy]

Perhaps fortunate that it wasn't widely known, but unfortunately it has definitely been crossed before.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/small-but-growing-number-of-us-orthodox-rabbis-officiating-same-sex-weddings/

You can quibble with how 'frum' any of these people are, but they're (mostly) claiming the Orthodox label while doing these things.

The line that has been crossed here is not the same sex wedding in and of itself, it's the same sex wedding that looks 100% normal otherwise. That's new and waaay beyond the pale.

[Definitions]

Blame the community or blame the leadership?

Neither. The individual.

[EliJelly]

Heartwarming to see in light of this unbelievable חילול ה׳ how everybody here is getting so worked up to defend His Holy Name.
Feels good to hang around here.

[Dan]

Neither. The individual.

Who says the average person there even knows better anymore?

What rabonim accept as obvious may not be to the general public. Just look at popular frum FB groups to see what's going on.

6-7 years ago I mentioned to a couple askanim that the frum organizations need to start publicly addressing how to deal with LGBTQ in the frum community on a practical level. It seemed to fall on deaf ears. :/

[imayid2]

A sign of the times and how low some segments of the frum community are holding: a forum for supposedly frum mothers has banned all talk of the “wedding” and the topic in general because so many supposedly frum women were defending these עוברי עבירה that the forum discussions got too heated so the topic was banned.

They should consider sending them this way. Our convo is hopelessly one sided with no serious contenders in defense and could use some spice. As long as they have more to say than the all powerful talking-in-shul argument that is.

Gosh can't believe @CountValentine isn't here.

[m65]

They should consider sending them this way.

halevai

[whacked1]

A sign of the times and how low some segments of the frum community are holding: a forum for supposedly frum mothers has banned all talk of the “wedding” and the topic in general because so many supposedly frum women were defending these עוברי עבירה that the forum discussions got too heated so the topic was banned.

Serious question though, as a parent, we all want our children be happy and have a successful lives. No one here should know of this test, but what would someone do if their child is gay and has zero interest the opposite gender?  There is no place for single people in the frum community. Do you try to force the child into a loveless marriage ?

[sky121]

Serious question though, as a parent, we all want our children be happy and have a successful lives. No one here should know of this test, but what would someone do if their child is gay and has zero interest the opposite gender?  There is no place for single people in the frum community. Do you try to force the child into a loveless marriage ?

Ah, finally a question that can potentially lead somewhere productive.

[Dan]

Serious question though, as a parent, we all want our children be happy and have a successful lives. No one here should know of this test, but what would someone do if their child is gay and has zero interest the opposite gender?  There is no place for single people in the frum community. Do you try to force the child into a loveless marriage ?

https://asknoah.org/wp-content/uploads/rebbe-letter-to-man-struggling-with-homosexuality.pdf

[moko]

Ah, finally a question that can potentially lead somewhere productive.

what happens if you adopt a child and find out he's a mamzer?
What happens if you find out your child has a dormant deadly disease?
 
Do you you encourage your child to hide it and get married for the sake of being happy?
We can play the what if game till the end of time and toy with nisyonos.
What if your child decides they're in love with tree in your backyard

[aygart]

https://asknoah.org/wp-content/uploads/rebbe-letter-to-man-struggling-with-homosexuality.pdf

what happens if you adopt a child and find out he's a mamzer?
What happens if you find out your child has a dormant deadly disease?
 
Do you you encourage your child to hide it and get married for the sake of being happy?
We can play the what if game till the end of time and toy with nisyonos.
What if your child decides they're in love with tree in your backyard

The public push to consider it normal behavior makes various approaches more difficult.

[whacked1]

what happens if you adopt a child and find out he's a mamzer?
What happens if you find out your child has a dormant deadly disease?
 
Do you you encourage your child to hide it and get married for the sake of being happy?
We can play the what if game till the end of time and toy with nisyonos.
What if your child decides they're in love with tree in your backyard

No one said mentioned hiding information.

 

[whacked1]

I stand corrected.
Do you encourage a mamzer to marry so they'll be happy?

I don't know any mamzer (at least to my knowledge) and I'm not encouraging any aveirah. However, it would be a real nesayon for a mamzer to stay in the frum community and I wouldn't cast judgement or blame if said mamzer would leave the fold to find happiness outside the frum/jewish circles.

[Ver hut gazugt]

Serious question though, as a parent, we all want our children be happy and have a successful lives. No one here should know of this test, but what would someone do if their child is gay and has zero interest the opposite gender?  There is no place for single people in the frum community. Do you try to force the child into a loveless marriage ?

you are assuming the child cannot work on themselves to gain an attraction to the apposite gender.

[Alexsei]

Serious question though, as a parent, we all want our children be happy and have a successful lives. No one here should know of this test, but what would someone do if their child is gay and has zero interest the opposite gender?  There is no place for single people in the frum community. Do you try to force the child into a loveless marriage ?

Obviously tefilah comes to mind, lots of it, lots of tears H"Y, then it would be extremely difficult to find a licensed therapist  (conversion therapy) that would take the approach that this is a nisayon to combat and not simply an "orientation" (especially so if the child is under 18).

Lastly, hypothetical questions such as these are extremely difficult for anyone to answer, אל תדין חבירך עד שתגיע למקומו ולמקומו אל תגיע

[moko]

I don't know any mamzer (at least to my knowledge) and I'm not encouraging any aveirah. However, it would be a real nesayon for a mamzer to stay in the frum community and I wouldn't cast judgement or blame if said mamzer would leave the fold to find happiness outside the frum/jewish circles.

here we go again.
The outrage here is not towards a specific individual nisyonos.
It's about normalizing and celebrating it.
Is that so hard to understand?

[yawn]

Serious question though, as a parent, we all want our children be happy and have a successful lives. No one here should know of this test, but what would someone do if their child is gay and has zero interest the opposite gender?  There is no place for single people in the frum community. Do you try to force the child into a loveless marriage ?

Can we first try to get the thousands of 30 and 40 y/o straight girls married before we condone this on the premise of "we want our kids to be happy?"

[whacked1]

here we go again.
The outrage here is not towards a specific individual nisyonos.
It's about normalizing and celebrating it.
Is that so hard to understand?

Chill out. You don't need to become condescending to make your point. 

No one is saying the outrage isn't justified. You had 6 pages to kick and scream about it (and rightfully so). I started a separate conversation on this topic.

[whacked1]

you are assuming the child cannot work on themselves to gain an attraction to the apposite gender.

I can't make any assumptions as I'm not a psychiatrist. I don't know if one can or cannot. This was a hypothetical question

Obviously tefilah comes to mind, lots of it, lots of tears H"Y, then it would be extremely difficult to find a licensed therapist  (conversion therapy) that would take the approach that this is a nisayon to combat and not simply an "orientation" (especially so if the child is under 18).

Lastly, hypothetical questions such as these are extremely difficult for anyone to answer, אל תדין חבירך עד שתגיע למקומו ולמקומו אל תגיע

Right. Perhaps we don't know what the family members of this family is going through either

Can we first try to get the thousands of 30 and 40 y/o straight girls married before we condone this on the premise of "we want our kids to be happy?"

I don't understand your point?

[moko]

Chill out. You don't need to become condescending to make your point. 

No one is saying the outrage isn't justified. You had 6 pages to kick and scream about it (and rightfully so). I started a separate conversation on this topic.

probably best to start a new thread if it's a new topic