Author Topic: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment  (Read 5512 times)

Offline ari3

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2023, 02:59:29 PM »
Some other problems with this whole ou-d but it's only equipment thing are
1) you are often relying on hearsay (I heard this mashgiach said etc.. or worse someone on an anonymous forum said).
 2) Additionally no one is taking responsibility for this and the ingredients can change (and do change) and you would not necessarily find out about it. Unlike when the hashgocho attests that it is DE at least you know what you are getting.

Offline jye

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2023, 07:28:07 PM »
True but חכמת אדם and pri megadim argue.
See discussion here
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=130814.msg2639991#msg2639991

Either way this all has very little to do with what he wrote it the article which is inaccurate. And is it really always לח בלח?
Pri Megadim quoted above actually seems to agree with Rav Moshe. He adds in ליכא דבר טמא as a כל שכן

Offline imayid2

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2023, 07:42:04 PM »
Pri Megadim quoted above actually seems to agree with Rav Moshe. He adds in ליכא דבר טמא as a כל שכן
He says otherwise by חלת חוץ לארץ so to answer that we’d say that that’s what brought it over.

No?

Offline jye

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2023, 08:06:25 PM »
He says otherwise by חלת חוץ לארץ so to answer that we’d say that that’s what brought it over.

No?

Sure doesn’t sound like it

Offline imayid2

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2023, 08:12:31 PM »
Sure doesn’t sound like it

Sure doesn’t sound like it


If you don’t like the resolution that’s fine, but it’s unfair to flaunt a pri magadim in one place without acknowledging that he says otherwise somewhere else.

Offline S209

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2023, 10:32:27 PM »
Is Snyders snacks ou-d or ou-de?
https://consumer.crckosher.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Dairy-Equipment-2021-1.pdf

https://kosheratlanta.org/snyders-pretzels/


Apparently they’re not even OU-DE, they’re completely pareve, but the company lists all their products as OU-D.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline aygart

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2023, 10:43:13 PM »
https://consumer.crckosher.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Dairy-Equipment-2021-1.pdf

https://kosheratlanta.org/snyders-pretzels/


Apparently they’re not even OU-DE, they’re completely pareve, but the company lists all their products as OU-D.

Where do you see that?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2023, 10:48:01 PM »
Sounds interesting, if you have a chance to pull sources on this it would be appreciated.
WOuldn't this be the regular sofo lihispashet?
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Offline imayid2

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2023, 11:02:51 PM »
WOuldn't this be the regular sofo lihispashet?
No, this is multiple batches, while “the regular” is dealing with everything at once.

Offline aygart

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2023, 11:04:49 PM »
No, this is multiple batches, while “the regular” is dealing with everything at once.
I am referring to within one batch. For example, in a pasteurizer, by the time the batch finishes flowing there will be shishim. This wouldn't always work for something like cookies etc.
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Offline imayid2

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2023, 11:05:52 PM »
I am referring to within one batch. For example, in a pasteurizer, by the time the batch finishes flowing there will be shishim.
Ok, that’ll give you a few more applications. Far from a generally applicable heter.

Offline aygart

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2023, 11:09:11 PM »
Ok, that’ll give you a few more applications. Far from a generally applicable heter.

Correct. It works where it works. I think there were a few other shitos in chn"n that can each end up applicable in various cases but I don't remember them now.
Obviously the tzad that cholov akum is batel birov brought by PM"G would apply in all cases of keilim too.
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Offline S209

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2023, 11:59:48 PM »
Where do you see that?
The first link mentions that Snyder’s pretzels are all labeled dairy even when they’re completely pareve for uniformity. The second lists these pretzels among those that are not actually OU-D. I made the leap myself to assuming these are in fact pareve but listed as OU-D.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline aygart

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2023, 12:05:25 AM »
The first link mentions that Snyder’s pretzels are all labeled dairy even when they’re completely pareve for uniformity. The second lists these pretzels among those that are not actually OU-D. I made the leap myself to assuming these are in fact pareve but listed as OU-D.
So you are assuming that none are actually DE? That is a pretty large baseless jump.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline S209

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2023, 12:08:07 AM »
So you are assuming that none are actually DE? That is a pretty large baseless jump.
Not entirely unfounded, but I guess it isn’t certain. The first article leaves room to assume that the D component on the products without any dairy ingredients is completely unnecessary and just to ensure uniformity of labeling. It may be that there is dairy equipment used for some of the products but why would you assume that?
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline aygart

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2023, 12:14:59 AM »
Not entirely unfounded, but I guess it isn’t certain. The first article leaves room to assume that the D component on the products without any dairy ingredients is completely unnecessary and just to ensure uniformity of labeling. It may be that there is dairy equipment used for some of the products but why would you assume that?
Because they specify "An example of this is plain (unflavored) Snyder’s pretzels". Obviously some production line somewhere produces dairy. Why would you assume that not a single other product is made on that line and that everything is the same as plain?

Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline S209

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2023, 01:07:31 AM »
Because they specify "An example of this is plain (unflavored) Snyder’s pretzels". Obviously some production line somewhere produces dairy. Why would you assume that not a single other product is made on that line and that everything is the same as plain?
It’s true I can’t assume not, but there is definitely a chance they don’t run other products on that. Curious if they actually do. I’m no expert on these things though so I probably shouldn’t have made the jump.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline aygart

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2023, 06:59:06 AM »
It’s true I can’t assume not, but there is definitely a chance they don’t run other products on that. Curious if they actually do. I’m no expert on these things though so I probably shouldn’t have made the jump.
The most likely is that the pretzels themselves are parve while the added flavors are D or DE
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Baruch

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2023, 04:00:41 PM »
I don’t understand this.

Keilem are always assumed to have more than 1/60 of what they contain, why is commercial any different?
Shefa is when the amount of issur itself is negligible.
Here's the Mechaber with the Nosei Keilim
https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%97%D7%9F_%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9A_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94_%D7%93%D7%A2%D7%94_%D7%A6%D7%98_%D7%96

The only way I can understand his point is regarding אין מבטלין איסור לכתחילה, that if it's shefa it would be mutar.
But in truth I would think most people would be soimeich on Rav Moshe for ein mevatlin either way.

Offline imayid2

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Re: OU-D Products that are Dairy Equipment
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2023, 04:06:38 PM »
Here's the Mechaber with the Nosei Keilim
https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%97%D7%9F_%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%9A_%D7%99%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94_%D7%93%D7%A2%D7%94_%D7%A6%D7%98_%D7%96

The only way I can understand his point is regarding אין מבטלין איסור לכתחילה, that if it's shefa it would be mutar.
But in truth I would think most people would be soimeich on Rav Moshe for ein mevatlin either way.
Not sure what you mean. There shouldn’t be an issue of אין מבטלין if the company is doing it anyway.