Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread

[davidd75]

https://x.com/kann_news/status/1795518536305066480

wow we all know this is going on but I doubt the rest of the world sees this

I wish this could get more publicity in the US?

[ExGingi]

The slide presented is being circulated and drawing lots of criticism. I was also shocked when I saw it. But if you listen to the actual interview/presentation (as well as the questions raised and possible conclusions) you get a totally different picture. Talking (and presenting) in "soundbites" is an art that has to be mastered in today's day and age.

https://x.com/Now14Israel/status/1795887734206189708

[Chuchum Ainer]

Sincere question:

How much anti-hamas sentiment is there in Gaza?

The narrative believed and repeated by many Mainstream Jewish Americans is basically that many Gazans want peace with Israel, and many more of them at least hate Hamas even if they don't like Israel. (See Schumer's speech for instance)
The feeling of many other Jewish Americans is that the vast majority of Gazans hate Israel (whether because of indoctrination or some other reason) and Hamas still enjoys widespread support.

The argument against the first option is that we haven't seen it. It's fine for Pro-Palestianian Americans to say that they want dialog with Israel, but where are all the anti hamas protests in Gaza?! What evidence is there of such sentiment in Gaza?
Of course, Hamas literally killed much of their opposition after the 2007 election, and you can't safely be against Hamas the way Israelis can safely be anti their government.

So my question is, is that Kan clip a somewhat accurate depiction of the feelings of a significant number of Gazans? Is there more evidence than that?
Remember, I can easily put together a 5 minute montage of Jews and Israelis saying Israel has no right to exist, Bibi is a murderer, there are no Arab terrorists, October 7 was justified, etc etc. Neutrei karta and Ofer Cassif don't represent most Jews or Israelis.

[yelped]

Sincere question:

How much anti-hamas sentiment is there in Gaza?

The narrative believed and repeated by many Mainstream Jewish Americans is basically that many Gazans want peace with Israel, and many more of them at least hate Hamas even if they don't like Israel. (See Schumer's speech for instance)
The feeling of many other Jewish Americans is that the vast majority of Gazans hate Israel (whether because of indoctrination or some other reason) and Hamas still enjoys widespread support.

The argument against the first option is that we haven't seen it. It's fine for Pro-Palestianian Americans to say that they want dialog with Israel, but where are all the anti hamas protests in Gaza?! What evidence is there of such sentiment in Gaza?
Of course, Hamas literally killed much of their opposition after the 2007 election, and you can't safely be against Hamas the way Israelis can safely be anti their government.

So my question is, is that Kan clip a somewhat accurate depiction of the feelings of a significant number of Gazans? Is there more evidence than that?
Remember, I can easily put together a 5 minute montage of Jews and Israelis saying Israel has no right to exist, Bibi is a murderer, there are no Arab terrorists, October 7 was justified, etc etc. Neutrei karta and Ofer Cassif don't represent most Jews or Israelis.

I think your question should be how many support Hamas' attacks against Israel, as I would imagine many don't prefer Hamas rule as it relates to them due to the severe oppression by Hamas, but still support terror against Israel. Actually, I don't have to imagine, as there are numerous polls supporting this.

[gozalim]

https://x.com/Now14Israel/status/1795887734206189708

wow!

[ExGingi]

I think your question should be how many support Hamas' attacks against Israel, as I would imagine many don't prefer Hamas rule as it relates to them due to the severe oppression by Hamas, but still support terror against Israel. Actually, I don't have to imagine, as there are numerous polls supporting this.

No need to split hairs or to review polls. Look at what goes on in areas controlled by the PA. Listen to the PA, the PIJ and Hamas. They are all IslamoNazis. They all want EY to be Judenrein. So as you say, what they want for themselves is quite irrelevant. The vast majority are rabid antisemites.

Listen to what Loay Alshareef describes, and he didn't even live there. Look at the majority of the Muslim world.

The idea of a peaceful "two-state solution" is a progressive western delusion.

[ExGingi]

wow!

Unfortunately, the ratio between those that will take the time to view the entire clip to those that just saw the slide and the reactions to it, is not even in the same ballpark as the ratios in the slide.

[gozalim]

wow at the study itself

[ExGingi]

wow at the study itself

Right, but

Unfortunately, the ratio between those that will take the time to view the entire clip to those that just saw the slide and the reactions to it, is not even in the same ballpark as the ratios in the slide.

So the details, questions raised, possible answers, etc. will be totally lost.

[michdude]

No need to split hairs or to review polls. Look at what goes on in areas controlled by the PA. Listen to the PA, the PIJ and Hamas. They are all IslamoNazis. They all want EY to be Judenrein. So as you say, what they want for themselves is quite irrelevant. The vast majority are rabid antisemites.

Listen to what Loay Alshareef describes, and he didn't even live there. Look at the majority of the Muslim world.

The idea of a peaceful "two-state solution" is a progressive western delusion.

Precisely. If there was a true anti-hamas sentiment among the Gazans, that would be reflected in statements from the muslim communities outside of Gaza where they're free to speak openly. Muslims in the US and UK would be openly saying that Hamas is a disaster and please rescue our relatives in Gaza. Instead they're protesting the Israelis.

The Arab hatred for the Jew far surpasses any other emotion that they possess. Even if they hate Hamas, they still hate Jews even more. It's never been otherwise and has nothing to do with external factors. It's in their DNA.

[ExGingi]

Precisely. If there was a true anti-hamas sentiment among the Gazans, that would be reflected in statements from the muslim communities outside of Gaza where they're free to speak openly. Muslims in the US and UK would be openly saying that Hamas is a disaster and please rescue our relatives in Gaza. Instead they're protesting the Israelis.

The Arab hatred for the Jew far surpasses any other emotion that they possess. Even if they hate Hamas, they still hate Jews even more. It's never been otherwise and has nothing to do with external factors. It's in their DNA.

All one needs to do is watch MEMRI videos. The speakers who say Muslims/Hamas/Hizballah etc. are at fault rather than the Jews/Israelis are few and far between.

[TimT]

They want a government that will be nice to them but still kill Jews.

[sguitarist18]

All one needs to do is watch MEMRI videos. The speakers who say Muslims/Hamas/Hizballah etc. are at fault rather than the Jews/Israelis are few and far between.

How accurate are the translations in the MEMRI videos?

[ExGingi]

How accurate are the translations in the MEMRI videos?

They know Arabic much better than I do. We're not even in the same ballpark. And they don't use AI translations.

As far as I can tell they are very accurate (and give context or explanation to expressions used where a literal translation won't give meaning).

[ExGingi]

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/390754

Senator Graham continued, “So I spoke up. Everywhere you look in Israel – Hezbollah, Hamas, Iran have one thing in common – kill all the Jews. They're not trying to help the Palestinians. Hamas is not a movement to make the life of the Palestinians better. It's a movement to destroy the state of Israel.”

[Savingsbeast]

The slide presented is being circulated and drawing lots of criticism. I was also shocked when I saw it. But if you listen to the actual interview/presentation (as well as the questions raised and possible conclusions) you get a totally different picture. Talking (and presenting) in "soundbites" is an art that has to be mastered in today's day and age.

Can anyone give a synopsis of the video?

[Chuchum Ainer]

No need to split hairs or to review polls. Look at what goes on in areas controlled by the PA. Listen to the PA, the PIJ and Hamas. They are all IslamoNazis. They all want EY to be Judenrein. So as you say, what they want for themselves is quite irrelevant. The vast majority are rabid antisemites.

Listen to what Loay Alshareef describes, and he didn't even live there. Look at the majority of the Muslim world.

The idea of a peaceful "two-state solution" is a progressive western delusion.

So basically you have no clue.
A bunch of mareh mekomos to go look, and a cute Hashtag (backed by very real passions which I of course agree with)

[ExGingi]

Can anyone give a synopsis of the video?

A physicist was puzzled by the disparity between the numbers of victims in various locales, and started assembling various data points to try to find any commonalities.

It wasn't distance, or any other "obvious" factor. And then he discovered the pattern in the graph, that left wing locales had disproportionate numbers of victims. That is raw data and facts. Even when eliminating the extreme data points, the data was still clearly showing disproportionate numbers of victims between right wing and left wing locales.

He then goes on to theorize why it is so. Amongst the theories brought up were: trust and suspicion towards Gazans; attention or dismissal of early warning signs; trust/adherence to government directives to keep weapons of local defense groups locked up or within reach, etc.

[ExGingi]

https://x.com/clarka418/status/1795927998010429761

[ExGingi]

Can someone share one of the out of context clips or slides? I don't think I bumped into one

They're all over Twitter. Check Yair Lapid's tweets for example. There are no clips. Only one slide.