Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread

[Moshe Green]

TIL that the IDF, not only doesn't automatically inscribe הי"ד on tombstones of all fallen soldiers, they don't even allow it for those that want it written.

https://www.inn.co.il/news/640562

and then they wonder why Chareidim don't want to join...

[TimT]

What’s the stated reason ?

[mevinyavin]

What’s the stated reason ?

No mention of Hashem, and no mention of revenge.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/391670

[gozalim]

"זה הנוסח שחרדים כותבים על מצבות שלהם, משרד הביטחון לא מאשר לנו את המילה "השם" ולא את שורש המילה "יקום" כי אסור נקמה, אז משרד הביטחון לא מוכן".

What’s the stated reason ?

[Yehuda57]

Is there an official statement from the idf?

[TimT]

Why no mention of hashem ? They let them put on tefillin, daven, have sifrei torah. That’s all for hashem.

[Dan]

Is there an official statement from the idf?

Asked. Not holding my breath.

[ExGingi]

https://www.nevo.co.il/law_html/law01/057_003.htm

[yelped]

What’s the stated reason ?

Just assuming because they don't believe in "revenge".

[ExGingi]

Just assuming because they don't believe in "revenge".

Do we believe in human revenge?

[aygart]

Do we believe in human revenge?

Against enemies? I don't know a source that we don't and can think of cases where we did.

[ExGingi]

Against enemies? I don't know a source that we don't and can think of cases where we did.

Against enemies that could be preventive (as the current war in Gaza is). Other than where commanded (מדין, עמלק) why would we (if not as a means to prevent future attack, which makes it something other than revenge).

[EliJelly]

What say do they have over the family's wishes on what to write on a tombstone? Is it just for chayalim cemeteries?

[ExGingi]

What say do they have over the family's wishes on what to write on a tombstone? Is it just for chayalim cemeteries?

Yes. IINM every cemetery has a section.

[Yehuda57]

I'm no grammar expert, nor a theological or halachic one. But even a dunce like me knows there's a difference between avenge and revenge; between G-dly vengeance and human revenge. My guess this has nothing to do with any of that, but just a brainless bureaucrat going by the book exactly without an inch of leeway. It's an easy win for the IDF if someone with half a braincell looks at the case and makes a one time exception and then let them revisit the rules.

[AsherO]

TIL that the IDF, not only doesn't automatically inscribe הי"ד on tombstones of all fallen soldiers, they don't even allow it for those that want it written.

https://www.inn.co.il/news/640562

It’s possible that they would tolerate the abbreviated הי״ד, my understanding is the family rightfully wants it spelled out.

[Yehuda57]

What say do they have over the family's wishes on what to write on a tombstone? Is it just for chayalim cemeteries?

Pretty sure it's the same anywhere. You can put whatever you want on your tombstone in America, but if you are a vet and want to get buried in Arlington or a military cemetery, you have to follow their rules.

[AsherO]

I'm no grammar expert, nor a theological or halachic one. But even a dunce like me knows there's a difference between avenge and revenge; between G-dly vengeance and human revenge. My guess this has nothing to do with any of that, but just a brainless bureaucrat going by the book exactly without an inch of leeway. It's an easy win for the IDF if someone with half a braincell looks at the case and makes a one time exception and then let them revisit the rules.

The army leadership is stupid, stubborn, and would choose to die on a hill like this. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if they prevailed and the family wouldn’t have much recourse. Shameful.

[aygart]

Against enemies that could be preventive (as the current war in Gaza is). Other than where commanded (מדין, עמלק) why would we (if not as a means to prevent future attack, which makes it something other than revenge).

Most revenge has a preventative aspect to it. But even without that you have not presented a reason or a source why not.

[Dan]

It’s possible that they would tolerate the abbreviated הי״ד, my understanding is the family rightfully wants it spelled out.

Source?