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« Last edited by ExGingi on November 27, 2023, 05:15:11 PM »

Author Topic: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread  (Read 1229835 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14260 on: November 29, 2024, 01:57:25 PM »
Please G-d don’t.

I'll take my cue. @CountValentine what was that shortcut program you were using?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14261 on: November 29, 2024, 02:13:53 PM »
Seriously? How superficial of an argument could you make?

Why have a chain of command?

Let the entire military and intelligence apparatus report directly to him.  ::) ::) ::)

So it doesn’t matter who’s at the top? It’s their job to lead, evaluate what’s being reported, strategize, etc. If you maintain that he’s 0% responsible (even if just until proven otherwise, yet hold the rest of the chain of command to a different standard), many would call that a Bibist.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14262 on: November 29, 2024, 02:23:22 PM »
So it doesn’t matter who’s at the top? It’s their job to lead, evaluate what’s being reported, strategize, etc. If you maintain that he’s 0% responsible (even if just until proven otherwise, yet hold the rest of the chain of command to a different standard), many would call that a Bibist.

Your being superficial again. (And then deny being brainwashed 🙄)

Can you show me where I said that he's 0% responsible?

At the very least he's responsible for the Shalit deal, which IMHO is likely to have had a contributing effect. And he probably relied on "expert" assessments (aka konseptzia), but he walked into it with his eyes open and plenty of warnings, as opposed to the current situation where he seems to have been kept in total darkness.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2024, 02:27:42 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14263 on: November 29, 2024, 02:35:54 PM »
I did not mention his trial, I know literally nothing about it. That's the whole thing - you say I've been brainwashed by a viewpoint I barely know exists.
Highly effective Soviet designed psychological subversion.  :P
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Just A Jew

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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14264 on: November 29, 2024, 02:37:14 PM »
Highly effective Soviet designed psychological subversion.  :P

You should try it instead of your buzzwords. Subtlety is proven to work.
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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14265 on: November 29, 2024, 04:14:15 PM »
Since many here seem to disagree with me, it can hardly be called an EC.

Nah
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14266 on: November 30, 2024, 02:01:54 PM »
A commanding general of one of the battalions in Lebanon, brought a friend of his - a citizen! - into Lebanon without permission.
The civilian was killed by enemy fire.
HY”D
https://yated.com/my-take-on-the-news-376/
Last Wednesday, the media reported that the famous researcher Zeev Chanoch Ehrlich, who is known by his nickname “Jabo,” was killed by terrorists in Lebanon. Most people immediately raised the obvious question: What was a 70-year-old man doing in Lebanon? When the media followed up by reporting that he had entered Lebanon with permission from a senior officer in the army, the criticism shifted toward that officer. It seemed as if someone high up in the IDF (and associated with the right, of course) had permitted Jabo, a well-known right-wing figure, to enter the danger zone for no discernible reason.

Ehrlich, a long-time resident of the settlement of Ofra, was killed in a confrontation with terrorists in Lebanon after entering the area as a civilian with authorization from Yoav Yarom, a colonel in the reserves, who was believed to have authorized his visit in violation of IDF regulations. Yoav himself was injured in the same incident, and another soldier was killed. That was all it took to trigger an uproar in the media.

The political right did not respond at first, although it was obvious that something about this story did not add up. It was soon revealed that this wasn’t the first time that Jabo had entered a war zone as a civilian; in fact, he entered Gaza during the early months of the ground incursion, with the approval of senior IDF officers, and he had previously visited Arab-occupied areas of Yehuda and Shomron under guard from the IDF. At that point, the niggling questions blossomed into a full-blown mystery. What was the meaning of this? Why was this academic in his seventies frequenting dangerous war zones? The leftists began painting a picture of an eccentric man who received permission from the army to enter war zones for no good reason, and whose capricious behavior had caused the death of Gur Kehati, the other soldier killed in the incident. The flames of incitement were fanned, and tensions began rising.

But then it became clear that the agitators had gotten the story completely wrong. Zeev Ehrlich, a renowned historian and archaeologist, had indeed entered war zones with the army on a regular basis—at the army’s request, when his expertise on ancient buildings was needed. Jabo, who wrote a book on Jewish buildings in Gaza, was considered an expert in the field, and when the army needed immediate information on the interior of a historic building in the battle zone, they would call on Jabo, who would always respond instantly. The famed researcher was prepared to don his IDF uniform and arrive at the scene on a moment’s notice; when Jabo as asked to help defend Eretz Yisroel, he did not hesitate to come to the army’s aid. In fact, it is believed that his expertise saved the lives of many soldiers in the past, thanks to the detailed information he was able to provide about historic structures that might have been harboring terrorists.

In this case, there was a historic building in Lebanon that the army refrained from bombing from the air due to its significance. The IDF suspected that there might be terrorists hiding in the building, and they consulted with Jabo to learn about its interior. Unfortunately, two terrorists were indeed holed up in the building, and they killed Jabo and Kehati and injured Yarom, who is considered one of the most cautious commanders in the IDF and recently clashed with the chief of staff on the subject. The entire controversy, then, proved to be one massive blood libel, which was at least deflated fairly quickly. The levayah was held in Ofra (even though the army offered him a military funeral at a military cemetery, a privilege accorded to every soldier who is killed in action) and was attended by a large crowd, and many people visited the family during the shiva as well. I felt a certain connection to the family since one of the aveilim, Yitzchok Amitai, is my coworker in the Knesset. He is the spokesman for the Knesset Health Committee and is one of the most popular Knesset employees, as well as a talmid chochom and a yarei Shomayim. On Wednesday, he released a sharply worded statement against the IDF spokesman, who initially joined the ranks of the critics until he realized the truth of the matter.

Offline ExGingi

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« Last Edit: November 30, 2024, 07:53:46 PM by ExGingi »
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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14268 on: November 30, 2024, 07:03:25 PM »
Add the following theory to what was written above about Turkey, and count these as unexpected twists (though I wouldn't put too much stock in this tweet given the account posting it. But it's at least important to understand narratives going on in the Arab world).

https://x.com/me_observer_/status/1862513849754148956

https://x.com/jewishwarrior13/status/1862998274493358341
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14269 on: November 30, 2024, 07:09:41 PM »
I get what you're saying, and I've suspected it to be the case. However those terms are used for brevity and clarity, as they encompass in a single term the unfortunate reality.

It is simpler to just say "fifth column" than "the Israeli globalist left-wing that supplies information and whispers into the ears of foreign powers in order to jeopardize the legitimately elected government from carrying out its duties".

An example:

https://x.com/yossibaum/status/1862966529131675757

And

https://x.com/omarbaddar/status/1862948863889256690

https://x.com/mcl_bgn/status/1862987710991868367
« Last Edit: November 30, 2024, 07:52:45 PM by ExGingi »
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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14270 on: November 30, 2024, 09:00:42 PM »
Since many here seem to disagree with me, it can hardly be called an EC.

It is very easy for someone to become a one person EC
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Offline Alexsei

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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14272 on: November 30, 2024, 11:37:28 PM »
Sirens in Jerusalem
TRUMP better coverage than 5G!

Offline Sam 77

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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14273 on: November 30, 2024, 11:51:45 PM »
Sirens in Jerusalem
not jerusalem but close by

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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14274 on: December 01, 2024, 12:52:41 AM »

In this case, there was a historic building in Lebanon that the army refrained from bombing from the air due to its significance. The IDF suspected that there might be terrorists hiding in the building, and they consulted with Jabo to learn about its interior. Unfortunately, two terrorists were indeed holed up in the building, and they killed Jabo and Kehati and injured Yarom, who is considered one of the most cautious commanders in the IDF and recently clashed with the chief of staff on the subject.

So 2 people lost their lives because they were worried about a historic building? (Also, what does cautious mean in this context?)

Offline AsherO

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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14275 on: December 01, 2024, 08:55:34 AM »
So 2 people lost their lives because they were worried about a historic building? (Also, what does cautious mean in this context?)

Paint with broad strokes and you lose any sense of nuance.

These historical sites are oftentimes areas, not just individual tunnels. There could be entrances to underground hiding places, so leveling the structure won’t always help. Even if not, terrorists could survive such actions, e.g. the house Sinwar was cornered in was shelled by tanks before he was videoed by drones, he survived the shelling.

Being familiar with the site and advising on how to best capture it/ensure it is clean of terrorists takes expertise. Also keep in mind that IDF doesn’t have unlimited munitions, so they have to decide where to use what and how much, based on inventory and priorities.
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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14276 on: December 01, 2024, 10:27:24 AM »



Happy you came back to post a mea culpa (even if you did not spell it out).

See! He doesn't only troll!

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14277 on: December 01, 2024, 11:39:26 AM »
So it doesn’t matter who’s at the top? It’s their job to lead, evaluate what’s being reported, strategize, etc. If you maintain that he’s 0% responsible (even if just until proven otherwise, yet hold the rest of the chain of command to a different standard), many would call that a Bibist.

I missed this gem in my previous response.

Where's your evidence that I'm holding anyone else to a different standard? I am talking about KNOWN FACTS that have been slowly coming to light. The fact that those who were aware AT REAL TIME of the imminent dangers, threats and warning signs DIDN'T pass on the information to the PM!

I have no clue what happened with earlier intelligence such as the "Jericho Document".

That being said, there's some fair criticism of Netanyahu here (yet still politically tilted, as it ignores the situation he inherited, and those that put it in place):

She writes that it's at 1:06. 1:06:00 is more likely what she means, but I suggest starting a few minutes earlier.
https://x.com/einatwilf/status/1861099991617425708

I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14278 on: December 01, 2024, 01:14:01 PM »
I missed this gem in my previous response.

Where's your evidence that I'm holding anyone else to a different standard? I am talking about KNOWN FACTS that have been slowly coming to light. The fact that those who were aware AT REAL TIME of the imminent dangers, threats and warning signs DIDN'T pass on the information to the PM!

I have no clue what happened with earlier intelligence such as the "Jericho Document".

That being said, there's some fair criticism of Netanyahu here (yet still politically tilted, as it ignores the situation he inherited, and those that put it in place):

She writes that it's at 1:06. 1:06:00 is more likely what she means, but I suggest starting a few minutes earlier.
https://x.com/einatwilf/status/1861099991617425708

Facts were withheld from him, we agree about that. The question is how much responsibility you ascribe to him (despite the facts we agree about), and it seems you’re at not holding him responsible until proven otherwise. When anyone suggests anything critical of him, it’s political or something he inherited (despite being PM 2009-2021). I guess you’re entitled to your standard.

 דקה1:06 means 1:06:00

ETA: I listened, she starts talking at 1:07:13 about what’s mentioned in the tweet, 1:06:00 or a bit earlier is a good starting point for context. The fact that Dr. Wilf criticizes Bibi for political reasons, doesn’t make all criticism of Bibi political.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2024, 01:20:14 PM by AsherO »
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Re: Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread
« Reply #14279 on: December 01, 2024, 01:26:49 PM »
Facts were withheld from him, we agree about that. The question is how much responsibility you ascribe to him (despite the facts we agree about), and it seems you’re at not holding him responsible until proven otherwise. When anyone suggests anything critical of him, it’s political or something he inherited (despite being PM 2009-2021). I guess you’re entitled to your standard.

 דקה1:06 means 1:06:00

ETA: I listened, she starts talking at 1:07:13 about what’s mentioned in the tweet, 1:06:00 or a bit earlier is a good starting point for context. The fact that Dr. Wilf criticizes Bibi for political reasons, doesn’t make all criticism of Bibi political.

My standard is straightforward and applied equally across the board. I will not judge or ascribe blame until facts come to light. Bez"h facts will come to light, and we can all judge at such time.

Your claim that my position is that "When anyone suggests anything critical of him, it’s political or something he inherited" simply doesn't hold water. I just posted some very legitimate criticism by Einat Wilff which I said I agree with. The only political tilt in her words is that she singles out Netanyahu for this, when she, who was previously in the Knesset, didn't take any political stance until now, while ALL the leaders of her party (when she was an MK) and other opposition parties share the exact same flaw, if not worse.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan