Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread

[TimT]

...that doesn't come first.

They're doing the best they possibly could with the very limited options they have. We don’t even know if most of the hostages are still alive.

[AsherO]

...that doesn't come first.

You can’t possibly know that, I don’t think anyone here does.

To say it differently, freeing the hostages also has military/psychological advantages.

[AsherO]

Depraved and chilling:

https://x.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1720095376525652334

Meanwhile the MSM/SM will find potentially hyperbolic accounts of what happened to nitpick and debate whether they’re true or not. As if that would somehow make the massacres any less atrocious.

[mevinyavin]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/angry-and-tired-gazan-mothers-stuck-in-israel-after-medical-care-want-to-get-home/

cry me a river. 
Or are they desperate to be human shields?

You understand the point I am making? Here you have people getting free help from IL and this is their attitude. What hope is there in convincing Gazans in Gaza?

[CountValentine]

They're doing the best they possibly could with the very limited options they have. We don’t even know if most of the hostages are still alive.

I agree and just pointing out the military decisions are a harsher approach.
Saying one has a family does not change that fact. War is ugly!

[AsherO]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/angry-and-tired-gazan-mothers-stuck-in-israel-after-medical-care-want-to-get-home/

Twisted irony!! Aren't they Palestinian refugees that were banished to Gaza and all they wish for is the opportunity to return to their homeland?

P.s. is the organization called שבת אחים, or is it שבט אך-ים

[TimT]

I agree and just pointing out the military decisions are a harsher approach.
Saying one has a family does not change that fact. War is ugly!

Nobody here knows which way “they lean”

[CountValentine]

Nobody here knows which way “they lean”

We know from history which way military leaders lean.

[TimT]

We know from history which way military leaders lean.

The Israelis take civilians into account, on either side, probably more than anybody in history. That’s why they’re still fighting this. They’ve waited years to kill a terrorist so as not to harm civilians.

[mgarfin]

Lots are thrown out these days about international law and war crimes.

Where can I learn more about this subject as it pertains to Israel Gaza war?

[yfr bachur]

Lots are thrown out these days about international law and war crimes.

Where can I learn more about this subject as it pertains to Israel Gaza war?

You mean the law, or the bias that gets thrown around?

[mgarfin]

You mean the law, or the bias that gets thrown around?

the law

[yfr bachur]

Start from the mekoros i.e. the various geneva conventions
The list of treaties found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_war
The DOD manual https://media.defense.gov/2023/Jul/31/2003271432/-1/-1/0/DOD-LAW-OF-WAR-MANUAL-JUNE-2015-UPDATED-JULY%202023.PDF

I think that that should keep you busy for the week.
We expect a chabura on sunday, and the shiur klali next thursday 

Seriously which aspect of international law are you looking for?

[yelped]

the law

Eugene Kontrovich.

[Boruch999]

Sirens

In context, Air raid sirens

[yelped]

Meanwhile Hezbollah is escalating missile and drone attacks against Israeli cities while the Houthis are still firing. But their puppet master, Iran, just got the chair of the UN Human Rights Council today. I guess they fit right in.

[Yehuda57]

the law

Tell us what you want the law to be and we'll send you the experts to read.

[Chaimel6]

CNN Opinion: There’s a smarter way to eliminate Hamas, by Robert A. Pape

Summary: Smashing Hamas will Ch"V lead to hatred and Hamas 2.0.

History repeats itself:

1.) Israel invaded Southern Lebanon with some 78,000 combat troops and almost 3,000 tanks and armored vehicles in June 1982.

The goal was to smash PLO terrorists, and Israel achieved significant near-term success. However, this military operation caused the creation of Hezbollah in July 1982, led to vast local support for Hezbollah and waves of suicide attacks and ultimately led to the withdrawal of Israel’s army from much of southern Lebanon in 1985 and the growth of Hezbollah ever since.

2.)  Israel maintained a heavy military occupation of Gaza and the West Bank from the early 1990s to 2005.

These operations succeeded in killing many terrorists from Hamas and other Palestinian groups, but also triggered vast local support for the terrorist groups and massive campaigns of suicide attacks against Israelis that stopped only when the heavy Israeli military forces left. Far from defeated, Hamas won the 2006 Palestinian elections.

 3.)  Israel launched a ground offensive into Lebanon in July-August 2006.

Although the goal was to completely destroy Hezbollah’s leaders and fighters so that it could never again kidnap Israeli soldiers and launch missiles at Israeli cities, the Israeli offensive failed, and Hezbollah is vastly stronger today as a result.
FILE - In this July 14, 2006 file photo, Lebanese youths gather on a hilltop overlooking the city of Beirut in Lebanon at sunset to watch smoke continuing to billow from a fuel dump at Beirut International Airport, which was hit by an Israeli airstrike. The Lebanese militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid in 2006, sparking a 34-day war that killed 159 Israelis and more than 1,000 Lebanese. (AP Photo/Ben Curtis, File)
Lebanese youths gather on a hilltop overlooking the city of Beirut to watch smoke continuing to billow from a fuel dump at Beirut International Airport, which was hit by an Israeli airstrike, 2006.
Ben Curtis/AP

4.)  The United States invaded and occupied Iraq in 2003 with 150,000 combat troops.

American forces completely defeated Saddam Hussein’s army within 6 weeks. However, these heavy military operations led to the largest suicide terrorist campaign in modern times, a major civil war in Iraq and ultimately, the rise of ISIS.

The better way:

The only way to create lasting damage to terrorists is to combine, typically in a long campaign of years, sustained selective attacks against identified terrorists with political operations that drive wedges between the terrorists and the local populations from which they come.

[Kobe Bryant]

Is IDF a joke? They also called it until tonight.
So before coming after me you might want to send the IDF a memo.

CV, it want personal. I was pointing that calling a city like any other city in Gaza that has been around for as long as Israel has, and that the refugees residents there are 3/4th generation is disingenuous and absurd. It is a political designation by the scum UN to portray them as indefinite victims (and siphon billions of dollars)

[Traveler718]

https://twitter.com/SidelockHolmes/status/1720057011243511931