Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread

[Just A Jew]

The thing that has struck me from the start is that this operation has not been predictable in the slightest. People were ready for them to run in guns blazing, and they didn't. Every day the ground invasion was gonna start every day, and it just didn't. Then people said they were just gonna suffice with the aerial bombing and not go in, and they started the ground invasion. They've bombed targets people thought were off limits, they have used bunker busters. Excuse my ignorance, but has any pundit predicted correctly what the next move would be?

Seems to me they are doing what they need to do without giving a flying fig how it looks or what anyone else thinks they should do - which is exactly the right move! Let them finish the job.

I don't disagree with any of this. Just commenting on the optics.

[Yehuda57]

Look at this thread. The head of the International Red Cross has known since *at least* 2014 that Hamas uses ambulances for transport https://twitter.com/Dave_Harden/status/1724770870332174723

The whole notion of Israel needing to procure evidence to win a PR war that has been lost because of willful ignorance is bizarre. Anyone who would be swayed by the truth has had the truth in their faces for years. Israel producing a nice video of Hamas using Al Shifa is not going to convince anyone who has been willfully ignorant for decades.

[Just A Jew]

Look at this thread. The head of the International Red Cross has known since *at least* 2014 that Hamas uses ambulances for transport https://twitter.com/Dave_Harden/status/1724770870332174723

The whole notion of Israel needing to procure evidence to win a PR war that has been lost because of willful ignorance is bizarre. Anyone who would be swayed by the truth has had the truth in their faces for years. Israel producing a nice video of Hamas using Al Shifa is not going to convince anyone who has been willfully ignorant for decades.

For me, the PR war is not about changing minds. It's about quieting some of the pressure politicians are getting. When the crazies shout about Israel blowing up a hospital, the media runs with it. When there's evidence that it isn't true, the media issues their quiet retraction and lets the story die. If there's no evidence, they keep running and amplifying the story, and then politicians start withdrawing public support.

PR isn't about facts, just like politics isn't about facts.

[TimT]

You're talking practically. I'm talking in terms of PR. No one cares about a picture with boxes stamped "Medical Supplies" in English. It looks like they're treating the international media consumers like they're stupid. Hospitals are supposed to be sacred. The argument is that Hamas defiled its sacred untouchable status, and that's why it's a legitimate target. If Israel is going to break that sanctity and not have anything to show for it, that's pretty disastrous. Again, all of this is just on a PR level.

You're too worried about the PR aspect. At this point everyone knows what’s right & wrong, good & evil. You’re not changing anyones mind anymore. You show them the greatest proof & they respond that it’s “false flag” or a “setup” by the Israelis. Then when you show them the actual footage from hamas then they switch to “it’s justified”.
You’re never going to convince the haters & deniers.

It’s time to stop trying to explain every bullet & missile they fire. It’s a war.

[Kobe Bryant]

BBC - "we said IDF were TARGETING medical teams and Arab speakers in Shifa hospital.”

We meant “IDF INCLUDED medical teams and Arab speakers in this operation (Shifa).”

The BBC is a bullhorn of hamas propaganda. disgrace to the entire UK. 

[Just A Jew]

You're too worried about the PR aspect. At this point everyone knows what’s right & wrong, good & evil. You’re not changing anyones mind anymore. You show them the greatest proof & they respond that it’s “false flag” or a “setup” by the Israelis. Then when you show them the actual footage from hamas then they switch to “it’s justified”.
You’re never going to convince the haters & deniers.

See my response here:

For me, the PR war is not about changing minds. It's about quieting some of the pressure politicians are getting. When the crazies shout about Israel blowing up a hospital, the media runs with it. When there's evidence that it isn't true, the media issues their quiet retraction and lets the story die. If there's no evidence, they keep running and amplifying the story, and then politicians start withdrawing public support.

PR isn't about facts, just like politics isn't about facts.

It’s time to stop trying to explain every bullet & missile they fire. It’s a war.

I don't disagree with this, and I've said as much before, particularly with the car that the tank blew up. But this isn't every bullet or missile. This is a hospital. The standards here are much, much higher. Israel is confident the hospital has lost its protected status? No problem. But be ready to live stream your actions or at least walk out with a treasure trove of evidence justifying invading a hospital.

[TimT]

See my response here:

I don't disagree with this, and I've said as much before, particularly with the car that the tank blew up. But this isn't every bullet or missile. This is a hospital. The standards here are much, much higher. Israel is confident the hospital has lost its protected status? No problem. But be ready to live stream your actions or at least walk out with a treasure trove of evidence justifying invading a hospital.

They don’t have to show anything to the world. They’ve already shown it to  US intelligence & Washington, which was very nice of them to do.

What took them so long to actually get in to the hospital ?

[jew]

[Just A Jew]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-publishes-evidence-of-weapons-found-inside-shifa-hospitals-mri-center/

[ah giten]

https://videoidf.azureedge.net/6cb5b1f7-6223-4917-bfe5-a2cb77c9e80d

[ah giten]

https://videoidf.azureedge.net/6cb5b1f7-6223-4917-bfe5-a2cb77c9e80d

They got Conricus, he's much better. Not giving eviDence the entire time.

[TimT]

https://twitter.com/idfonline/status/1724855391106801809
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1724859904052109354

[TimT]

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1724631504087634200.html

[superstareli55]

Does Israel even know where the hostages are?

[Yehuda57]

https://twitter.com/Elad_Si/status/1724803210584760578

[TimT]

Does Israel even know where the hostages are?

If they do it should stay 

[Yehuda57]

They got Conricus, he's much better. Not giving eviDence the entire time.

Flying (?) in a spokesperson to the literal frontline has a pretty big wrinkle to add in to an already difficult war. Clearly they aren't quite so blase about the PR war.

[AsherO]

Flying (?) in a spokesperson to the literal frontline has a pretty big wrinkle to add in to an already difficult war. Clearly they aren't quite so blase about the PR war.

My guess is he drove in entering from the northwest of the Gaza Strip. Richard Hecht was also I. Gaza with Hagari and some embedded journalists the other day, and published a video of them departing to the Strip in a military jeep.

[rbs-g1.5]

IDK why it was so necessary to make up something about the chart on the wall. While I am not good at reading handwritten Arabic, once it was pointed out to me, I can read what it says. I don't know why it is structured like this (rather than in 7 columns), but it is simply a calendar, that starts with Saturday (السبت) 10/7, and continues to list the days of the week and dates (right to left). If you count the "boxes" you will see that the writing repeats every 7th box.

the whole video is very shvach. He brings proof from improvised ventilation and bathrooms that it was used for recent hostage holding. Anybody who has any experience with arabs knows this to be standard avoda aravit. All it prooves is that people and possibly a family ,spent time there. nu nu

[yitzyul]

https://twitter.com/idfonline/status/1724855391106801809
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1724859904052109354

Im sorry, but that is a pathetic find. Im pretty sure there will be more to come, such as the underground bunker and tunnels. This video IMHO is a waste of time. Israeli government does such a bad job sometimes in setting the PR (narrative). Which person anywhere in the world is going to get swayed that fighting (or as the media calls it "bombing" or better yet "storming") a hospital is justified for a few AK-47 they found. Every hospital in 3rd world countries have armed security. That can just be a few of the security guards gear (grenades might be standard with these terrorist uniform). Avg attention span is less than a minute so why make a 5 min video to find a few guns....