Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread

[sam2015]

Sometimes difficult decisions need to be made to save these kids. The odds of getting them back through military ops is not high. They are more likely to try and kill them c"v before getting captured.

And sometimes it’s difficult to follow Halacha. I’m not indicating which way would be correct, but just saying whichever way it is, Halacha is the correct way no matter how difficult. The Torah is called Toras Emes, it is the only Emes there is.

I suspect they will be gathering TONS of intel during this pause.

Why any more than since the ground operation began?

[S209]

I've been truly surprised at the "not-so-anti-Israel" approach CNN has taken this whole time and this is no exception https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/22/media/jake-tapper-challenges-covering-war/index.html

Jake Tapper is Jewish and has been pretty honest and not anti-Israel the whole time. I think people don’t realize just how strongly most Jews identify with Israel, no matter how observant (with some notable high profile exceptions of course). Don’t buy the “JVP” narrative- they are a VERY small minority of Jews.

[imayid2]

And sometimes it’s difficult to follow Halacha. I’m not indicating which way would be correct, but just saying whichever way it is, Halacha is the correct way no matter how difficult.

Why any more than since the ground operation began?

Why do you think Halacha doesn’t say it’s the right thing to do? As far as I can tell most Gedolim who weighed in on this felt that it’s absolutely the correct thing to do. Thus the religious parties approved it

[gozalim]

The latest debate over the prisoner exchange is really missing CV's take

nah, he's never been one for nuance

[sam2015]

Why do you think Halacha doesn’t say it’s the right thing to do? As far as I can tell most Gedolim who weighed in on this felt that it’s absolutely the correct thing to do. Thus the religious parties approved it

I did not say whether Halacha says otherwise. Please reread my post. I said I’m not indicating which way would be correct according to Halacha.

[S209]

I think many here are ignoring that the prisoners being released do not have blood on their hands. I don’t think they’re too far off from many hundreds of thousands of Palestinian “civilians”. There are thousands of Palestinian prisoners in Israel who either were arrested preemptively for security reasons or for relatively minor offenses like rock throwing (the most common offense). I’m not saying it’s nothing but it’s not remotely similar to the Shalit deal. Just not in the same stratosphere.

Also, demanding that they all be Israelis is tactically smart as international pressure to get them all out will stay as long as foreign hostages are held.

More than anything, people should take a moment to realize we are talking about real living breathing Jews who literally could end up dead in the blink of an eye if things go sideways. Every single one rescued is a world. (We don’t know how many are already dead).

[aygart]

I did not say whether Halacha says otherwise. Please reread my post. I said I’m not indicating which way would be correct according to Halacha.

Great, so what is your point and why are you even bringing it up?

[sam2015]

I think many here are ignoring that the prisoners being released do not have blood on their hands. I don’t think they’re too far off from many hundreds of thousands of Palestinian “civilians”. There are thousands of Palestinian prisoners in Israel who either were arrested preemptively for security reasons or for relatively minor offenses like rock throwing (the most common offense).

Have you done any reading on this? I hate to quote yeshivaworld, but you can start here:
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2241509/jerusalem-residents-beware-terrorists-who-attempted-murder-to-be-released-to-their-homes.html

[sam2015]

Great, so what is your point and why are you even bringing it up?

Because people are prone to make emotional decisions that may not be correct according to Halacha.

[aygart]

Because people are prone to make emotional decisions that may not be correct according to Halacha.

Okay so go tell the irreligious Israelis that they should make sure to figure out the halacha first. I have no idea what you wanrt.

[S209]

Have you done any reading on this? I hate to quote yeshivaworld, but you can start here:
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2241509/jerusalem-residents-beware-terrorists-who-attempted-murder-to-be-released-to-their-homes.html

Thank you for that link

[aygart]

Of course there is a lot to be weighed in such a decision, but the knee-jerk reaction of many here to be against it seems very callous to me

[sam2015]

Okay so go tell the irreligious Israelis that they should make sure to figure out the halacha first. I have no idea what you wanrt.

My point is that on a forum here with frum individuals, the back and forth should be based on Halacha.

Thank you for that link

You’re welcome.

[ExGingi]

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1727230561796894978.html

https://x.com/franke_schrijft/status/1727230561796894978

[AsherO]

Of course there is a lot to be weighed in such a decision, but the knee-jerk reaction of many here to be against it seems very callous to me

Guilty as charged. I realize now that I don’t know enough about the factors that went into the decision-making, and my reaction was indeed knee-jerk.

[yuneeq]

https://twitter.com/ChayaRaichik10/status/1727056882978967895

The way the questions are being asked and the way he's answering leads one to believe that he's a genuine civilian. How and why is he in Israeli custody? How many more like him are in Israeli custody? If they determine he's a civilian, what do they do with him? Send him back to Gaza? Keep holding him even though he's not a threat?

Just random questions...

It’s not clear how they got a hold of him, but to me it seems pretty clear he is comfortable being there and sharing that info. I don’t think they would share the name and face of a cooperating civilian putting himself in danger unless he agreed to it. He also does seem like a genuine civilian to me, terrorists usually do not try to pretend.

[ExGingi]

Not posting this in "origins of conflict" thread because I think this is a very narrow Zionist view. Interesting coming from an Arab.

https://x.com/hananamiur/status/1727222318621970640

[Moshe Green]

Here we go again... freeing terrorists. But this time... in middle of a war!

Are they crazy?!?!

https://www.jdn.co.il/news/2083542/

(google translate)

Rabbi Moshe Hess was injured six months ago in an attack in the Shimon Hatzadik neighborhood in Jerusalem. The terrorist who tried to assassinate him - Ibrahim Zemer (15), is on the list of terrorists who will be released as part of the deal, and he talks about the feelings following the release of the person who carried out the attack in which he was injured...

[ExGingi]

https://x.com/gaza_report/status/1727334815257538993

[yuneeq]

https://x.com/levanonisrael/status/1727275068860829710

Thanks for sharing. Puts the hostage/prisoner ratio into perspective, as the list is mostly a nothing-burger comprising of prisoners getting released in the next year or so. The real civilian to dangerous terrorist ratio is like 50:5, I am sure that makes the halachik direction a lot to easier to decide in favor of the deal.

On the other hand, this further emphasizes that the prisoner/hostage swap was not important to Hamas at all, other than looking like winners. This also means that other conditions like the ceasefire was extremely important to them, I am hoping it does not stop Israel from accomplishing its goals or protecting our soldiers.