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« Last edited by ExGingi on November 27, 2023, 05:15:11 PM »

Author Topic: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION  (Read 660497 times)

Offline TimT

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #240 on: October 09, 2023, 11:44:36 AM »
need the green berets, seals. marines.
When did Israel disband their elite versions of these ?

Offline Chaimel6

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #241 on: October 09, 2023, 11:46:00 AM »
EYou’re mistake here is you’re thinking like a human being. They’re savage beasts & need to be treated as such.

Yet, the fighters are. But I believe that the leaders have self interest in mind. What they gain is not clear to me. Maybe it's Kovod.

Offline S209

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #242 on: October 09, 2023, 11:47:18 AM »
Israel should then completely repopulate Gaza with Israeli citizens.
FTFY

20 years ago, it was a regular part of Israel.
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Offline yfr bachur

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #243 on: October 09, 2023, 11:49:09 AM »
A continuation of my experiences, written for my parents... if this is not interesting for you or you think it belongs on another thread let me know...

Motzoei YT.
I spent the beginning of the night cleaning up from shabbos. The streets were entirely quiet. None of the usual honking and bustle from tachana merkazit, just a few buses.
Started to take down my sukka...
At some point found out that the rabbanim had canceled all hakafos shniyos (which was an obvious forgone conclusion).
Wondered about all the chutznekim here for YT, and what was appropriate for them to do... My thoughts were, as I had said to many people on our ST - Be mekayem mitzvas hayom with the minimum necessary and tehillim - no overboard dancing and singing.
I later heard that R Berkowitz had told his kehlia to have regular hakafos with emunah/chizuk songs but absolutely no alcohol or the like.
I heard one of the kehillos in Neve Yaakov (Chanichie) had done hakkafos on shabbos to nigunei chizuk and emuna - not ST songs.
There were very very few buses running. All the manpower is working on getting soldiers to the proper locations. Many many people are out of location during simchas torah, chassidim are by their rebbes, bachurim are in yeshiva with just a change of clothes and no tefillin. Young families are by their parents. They announce additional train services. At some point I'm asked if I can take a car and bring my in-laws home to Ramot and Neve Yaakov. I agree, and am shocked that there are cars available. I leave to pick them up, and I get a panicked call from my wife who has heard that there was a shooting in Givat Shaul. (This is after there was a stabbing in Givat Hatachmoshet).... We discuss it and decide that I will continue...  Shortly after she hears that it was a false alarm...
The roads are empty aside from bachurim and families waiting at bus stops...
I drive twice to Neve Yaakov, scared about possible attacks along the road from beit chanina above... Twice to Ramot - less scary.
 I drive past a bus stop in Ezras torah where there's a loudspeaker from the transport ministry telling people going to bnei brak to be patient... Midnight - The gas station in Neve Yaakov is out of fuel. The ones by knisa lIr are closed - no one has come to open the gates after shabbos... I guess he was called up... After 1am I see a few buses going to chareidi cities...
The gedolim wanted to start the yeshivos on Sunday - but logistics (bachurim don't have clothing or tehillim with them) lead them to say - Start Monday.
Get a message from son's cheder that there's no cheder on sunday. (The ganim were going to be off anyway on isru chag)

Report from a bachur who was in Mir.
The first siren went off during Nishmas. A little bit of indecision what to.. some of the RY closed their siddurim to go down to the miklat... They held a huddle talk and then the mashgiach paskens to stay put. (The RY wasn't there yet he davens vasikin and had not finished yet though he came shortly after). Rav Binyomin Carlebach davened for the amud. He sang much much more than the usual minhag in Mir - kel adon, kedusha, three time in hallel. (this was reminiscent, I'm told, to what he had done in the Mir on sukkos 50 years ago - or during the Gulf war...You know how shemuos go).
The RY came and sent people to make sure all Miklatim in the yeshiva were open and capable of holding people. - but said whoever is in BM should stay there it's the safest place.
At the end of hallel, R Yitzchok Ezrachi led the tzibur in tehhilim.
Hakafos were shortened considerably. The fourth hakafa was Theilim, and acheinu. otherwise mostly usual ST songs.
The RY came to the Chutznik seuda before hakafos and said to shorten hakafos and no drinking... Tehilim at the beginning and end of hakafos. In the middle of the hakkafos the Mashgiach spoke, and R elefant translated - explaining to the tzibur what was up...
Day. The RY said to cut short plus tehillim. During the seuda it was announced that there would be an emergency asifa for all bnei chul at 10:30.
Asifa. RY, and Rav Asher spoke. again R' elefant was the meturgeman.
No trips, Tyulim ect... Sakana + Chilul Hashem.
Story of mother who called RNT during Intifada wanting to bring son home, who said that the US may not be any safer...two days later was 9/11

Sunday morning. Isru chag.
We woke up with the same heavy hearts filled with dread that we had gone to sleep with...
I go into Shaarei Revacha on the way back from shul, just after they open. They've stocked all of the shelves though they don't have everything. There are pallets of basics at the door... Is this on purpose or did they not have the manpower to unpack them?
I do a quick shop, basics., just a tad more than I would usually... restock disposables (I was all out from yesterday). Later I hear that there are major supply bottlenecks all across the country, long lines... milk was only supplied to less than 30% of the usual supply, vegetables are in short supply.
We've been saying Tehillim together, I lead and my wife and the kids follow (as best as a 3.5 and 2 year old can...)
Finish taking down and putting my sukka away.
I need a washer to fix a leak in my bathroom that has been leaking all Sukkos so I go down to see if the tambur is open... it's not- as are almost all of the stores.
In tachana merkazit... The pharmacy is open, one cafe, one makolet, and the camping supply store where they've brought boxes of essential stuff to the front... It's quiet subdued... mostly people still in YT clothing trying to get home and soldiers on their way to base. Join a minyan of soldiers for mincha.
Get a message from the cheder - stay tuned for tomorrow's schedule.
Get a message from the Mir - The mashgiach says divrei chizuk...and says say tehillim.. with family - nosie b'ol... stay tuned for info legabi zman - the gedolim are discussing...
The whole time we're with an ear glued to the radio and the absolute horror of what has happened is getting clearer and clearer - dozens of hostages, in towns and cities and taken to Aza. The number of dead and wounded keeps going up and up and up beyond anything imaginable in our worst nightmares. The horror of a father who knows - he seen the videos! - his wife and small daughters are in Aza, his girls of eight paraded as a trophy of war "look at the Israeli Chaylet we've captured!". The massacre at the Music festival - the ambushed exits, the way they went around systematically shooting up all the surrounding trees and bushes where people were hiding. The survivor of the Shoah who was taken to Aza and forced to pose with her captors... the people who called their parents saying "Yaru bi - chaletz oti"... with no further contact.... The way they radio is filled with interviews with people searching for info on the whereabouts of brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, children... brings me back to my childhood memories of 9/11...
The army announces that they struck 700 targets in Aza - No one in Israel cares. It's like they announced that they opened a car door.
There are still towns in Israel that have not been cleared of terrorists.
The mir announces - starting tommorow - special limud of hilchos shabbos.
The cheder says no cheder but the bein hazmanim tehilim campaign continues...

Monday.
The ten oclock news includes this shocking statement:  current numbers are 700 dead but a government source says that the total number is going to be "bilty nitfas - unimaginable!"... if he's saying that at this unfathomable large number... What final total number are they psychologically preparing us for? Hashem Yerachem!!!
On the light rail are only old people there are no young people around- though somehow there are still people around to check your tickets...
at about 12 there is another azaka in JLM....
And again at 5. Rockets fall in JLM and Beitar...

A few thoughts going through my mind these days:
Vayidom Aharon.

Nosei B'ol - put yourself in their shoes. Imagine it's your 19 year old son fighting. Think of how you would feel if your wife and very young daughters were taken to Aza and violated. Your grandmother, uncle, out of contact and you know there were terrorists going house to house on their street. Imagine sitting in your living room with terrorists pointing their guns at you being videoed explaining to two of your young children that another one of your children is dead and wont be coming back... Imagine what the survivors  who stayed in their locked maamad - went through - lights off, entire families silent without food for 12-18 hours... so as not to attract attention that they were there - just like yidden during an akiton from the nazis... Imagine that your family happened to be away for shabbos - but all the neighbors on your entire street are kedoshim...

Point two, following the previous point.
What would you do at this point? Is now the time for vacations? Road Trips? clothes shopping?
I'm not a Rav, and I don't know if this reaches the level of Tzar Hatzibur that requires prisha bein Ish leishto - but we all know of people who didn't eat meat for the duration of WWII or who didn't sleep in a bed.... but there is a sensitivity here that we need to measure ourselves to. Are we going to continue with hearts of stone or will we let other people's tzar affect us...
Is now, when there are thousands of wounded, close to 1000!!! dead, the time to continue life as usual?
Simchos MUST be toned down. (You can close your ears now if you don't like this, but this is a judge of your sensitivity...)
You have a chasuna this week - good, Mazel Tov. Tone it down. Let everyone come in regular bigdei shabbos - no gowns aside from the kallah. Cut out the entire Shmorg/Kabalas Ponim. Cut down the size of the band, Finish by 10:30. Now is not the time for unbridled simcha.
Same for other simchos.
Make your shabbos less fancy. buy less dips, have chicken instead of meat.... prepare the dishes in less fancy ways. cut down on the table ormentations.
Push off your clothes buying...
Sleep with one less pillow
If you have a fancy office chair (in your office, study, or at abbas place) , change to a regular standard chair
Say tehillim whenever you can. Before every meal. when you're waiting for a bus, appointments....
Show your children that you cry for what klal yisroel is going through...
Say we're cutting down on nosh...

What would you be doing if you were anyone of the people you imagined to be in point one???

Offline TimT

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #244 on: October 09, 2023, 11:50:03 AM »
Israel has Sayeret Matkal, Shayetet 13, & countless other elite units.

Offline S209

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #245 on: October 09, 2023, 11:50:31 AM »
Famous Aruch lner who points to particularly calamitous years when RH fell on shabbos.
*Minchas Ani (yes I know it’s the same author).
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline TimT

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #246 on: October 09, 2023, 11:51:11 AM »
Why not request the help? Put pressure on the US government. What is the worst that can happen, they say no?
Even worse, a bunch of strings attached.

Offline imayid2

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #247 on: October 09, 2023, 11:52:03 AM »
Why is their bechirah our problem? When you fully believe everything happened because God decided, it's irrelevant who did it.
Huh? Of course it’s relevant who did it.

Offline yfr bachur

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #248 on: October 09, 2023, 11:53:04 AM »
When did Israel disband their elite versions of these ?

Not that they dont have. They need to rescue scores of people in scores of places. and it needs to sort of be simultaniously so they dont kill the remaining ones....

Offline CountValentine

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #249 on: October 09, 2023, 11:54:03 AM »
Even worse, a bunch of strings attached.
You need to get over it as there are always strings in everything we do.
Show me a country that believes it can take on the world by itself and I will show you a fool.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half
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Offline TimT

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #250 on: October 09, 2023, 11:57:42 AM »
You need to get over it as there are always strings in everything we do.
These strings involve not letting them get the job done.
The time has come for them to get the job done.

Offline avromie7

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #251 on: October 09, 2023, 11:58:41 AM »
Huh? Of course it’s relevant who did it.
For what purpose?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline TimT

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #252 on: October 09, 2023, 11:59:29 AM »

Offline CountValentine

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #253 on: October 09, 2023, 12:00:18 PM »
...not letting them get the job done.
What does that look like?
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half
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Offline yfr bachur

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #254 on: October 09, 2023, 12:01:30 PM »
EU considering halting terror funding.

https://twitter.com/OliverVarhelyi/status/1711362068056613294

oh.
Jews need to be hunted down like dogs before the EU listens....

Offline TimT

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #255 on: October 09, 2023, 12:04:09 PM »
But I believe that the leaders have self interest in mind. What they gain is not clear to me. Maybe it's Kovod.
They want more money. The more of them who die the more sympathy, money, & weapons will flow their way.
In whichever order.

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #256 on: October 09, 2023, 12:08:14 PM »
EU considering halting terror funding.

https://twitter.com/OliverVarhelyi/status/1711362068056613294
Wait, what, did the EU officially fund terror up until Today?
Jews ≠ Zionists
Palestinians ≠ Hamas
Satmar ≠ SatmarHQ

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #257 on: October 09, 2023, 12:09:38 PM »
A continuation of my experiences, written for my parents... if this is not interesting for you or you think it belongs on another thread let me know...

Point two, following the previous point.
What would you do at this point? Is now the time for vacations? Road Trips? clothes shopping?
I'm not a Rav, and I don't know if this reaches the level of Tzar Hatzibur that requires prisha bein Ish leishto - but we all know of people who didn't eat meat for the duration of WWII or who didn't sleep in a bed.... but there is a sensitivity here that we need to measure ourselves to. Are we going to continue with hearts of stone or will we let other people's tzar affect us...
Is now, when there are thousands of wounded, close to 1000!!! dead, the time to continue life as usual?
Simchos MUST be toned down. (You can close your ears now if you don't like this, but this is a judge of your sensitivity...)
You have a chasuna this week - good, Mazel Tov. Tone it down. Let everyone come in regular bigdei shabbos - no gowns aside from the kallah. Cut out the entire Shmorg/Kabalas Ponim. Cut down the size of the band, Finish by 10:30. Now is not the time for unbridled simcha.
Same for other simchos.
Make your shabbos less fancy. buy less dips, have chicken instead of meat.... prepare the dishes in less fancy ways. cut down on the table ormentations.
Push off your clothes buying...
Sleep with one less pillow
If you have a fancy office chair (in your office, study, or at abbas place) , change to a regular standard chair
Say tehillim whenever you can. Before every meal. when you're waiting for a bus, appointments....
Show your children that you cry for what klal yisroel is going through...
Say we're cutting down on nosh...


Very nicely written. Just a small ha'arah on point 2:

I personally felt as you and held myself back multiple times because i realized that those things i wanted to cut down on will hurt others...

Please make sure that if you want to cut down on something you won't be making anyone else suffer.

Telling a Kalla that her sisters cannot wear gowns or that they will be serving parve ruins her simcha.
Cutting out your kids nosh is not the thing to do.
Not eating meat, if your someone who needs a normal meal to function properly is not the thing for you.
Crying in front of your kids should not really be done either.

Choose wisely.

Offline yelped

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #258 on: October 09, 2023, 12:29:32 PM »
EU considering halting terror funding.

https://twitter.com/OliverVarhelyi/status/1711362068056613294
Better than nothing. But there are a lot of people all over the world who have blood on their hands, and they just can't reconcile the images coming out of Gaza now with their conscience so they're comforting themselves with things like this, but good morning America, this is partially your fault. Until now they didn't care about the terror inflicted by these animals against innocent civilians. Although, there were several countries in the EU that stopped funding the Palestinians recently (Holland and partially, Switzerland).

Offline ilherman

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #259 on: October 09, 2023, 12:34:48 PM »



Is this true? So Israel IS actively working to get captured people out from inside Gaza?
You can say what you think when you think what you say.