Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread

[AsherO]

Need a game plan for the actual war? More intelligence to prevent hitting booby traps? Want to send an assassination team to Iran at the same time?

A million possibilities.

I wish Bibi had the balls for this, but I don’t believe he does. It would hold the Iranians accountable beyond just hitting back at their proxy.

[AsherO]

...and take you know who with him.

Even if not, at least it would ensure You Know Who doesn’t stand a chance at another term.

[Dan]

Ground invasion is always preceded by days of air attacks. With the siege in place, there is even more reason to wait until supplies start running low.

Yes, but they have had days. And the world is already starting kvetching about the siege. How much time will Israel have to accomplish its mission?

[AsherO]

Yes, but they have had days. And the world is already starting kvetching about the siege. How much time will Israel have to accomplish its mission?

I’m not sure what the sweet spot is, hopefully Bibi and his advisors do.

[ushdadude]

Yes, but they have had days. And the world is already starting kvetching about the siege. How much time will Israel have to accomplish its mission?

more time than we think obviously

[Dan]

I’m not sure what the sweet spot is, hopefully Bibi and his advisors do.

Here's hoping.

[aygart]

He should have retired to the basement after the last speech. It will be all downhill from here.

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1712211073544442171

One thing about Joe Biden is that when he forms a strong opinion about something he is tenacious about it. I can easily see how in the right here right now Joe is better than any of the alternatives. I would be very concerned about Trump not having the guts to follow through and to what is needed.

[EliJelly]

Yes, but they have had days. And the world is already starting kvetching about the siege. How much time will Israel have to accomplish its mission?

First tell me how accomplishing the mission will look like then we can try figuring out a timeframe.

[Yehuda57]

Ground invasion is always preceded by days of air attacks. With the siege in place, there is even more reason to wait until supplies start running low.

They've been stockpiling supplies for years. Hamas will have plenty for a long time, it's the regular Palestinians who are/will be SOL, as always.

[yfr bachur]

Any explanation for the delay at this point?

A. It would have been unconciounable to do anything before all the terrorist in Israel were nueteralized.
B. It takes time to plan for something that really hasnt been gameplaned for
C. There was no way he was going in w/o a unity govt
D. building worldwide support.
E. Theres a strike on Iran coming.

My feeling, is that everyone whats what they need to happen right now, when its just not possible. Stuff takes time.
I'm not judgeing the pain of the families, but the complaints that we havent heard anything from an official source abut missing peaople that started to come on SUNDAY, when it was all still an active battle zone, or the people complaining about the slow pace of releasing bodies... when this is a uniquely large black swan event...
I forget where just I saw it, but I saw a story from s/o who knew a old person who had been held in captivity by the egyptians for a number of years in the 50s. His mother would visit a particular govt minister demanding to know what the govt was doing to get her son back. The minister would point to a picture on his desk, of his son who had been killed in combat - Thats my son, he's not coming back, yours proboly will, let my govt do its work...

[yfr bachur]

An Open Air Music Festival and Understanding the Nature of Hamas

I am a member of my community's Settlement Emergency Crew, Tzevet Herum Yishuvi or Tzachi for short. During war times my job is to translate security and safety instructions into English so that English speakers in our area will have no trouble understanding what is going on. Sunday morning I had to send out a death notice for a young man of 24, Dudi Turgeman, the grandson of a founding member, who had grown up on our moshav. He had attended an open air music festival in the fields near Kibbutz Reim. At about 6:30 AM rockets were fired at the area of the festival and most people took cover and then the gun fire started. Many people rushed to their cars and drove out heading north only to be ambushed along the highway by Hamas terrorists. Others fled across open ground some being shot down and others sprinting to safety in nearby settlements. So far it is estimated that about 250 people were murdered. Dudi and his friends went south because that is where our community is located. They almost made it home but were ambushed by some Hamas terrorists who had been repelled by Moshav Mivtahim's civil defense unit. The terrorists murdered Dudi and his friends as they passed the entrance to Moshav Mivtahim about five minutes away from home and safety.

Today, Wednesday, the estimated dead in the Hamas assault on our area and elsewhere is about about 900 and the dead are still being counted. My moshavhad just one killed, Dudi. Our neighboring community, Moshav Mivtahim, had four killed when fighting off the terrorist attack. Moshav Yesha, the next in line, had three killed. Down the road Ein Habesor had one killed while preventing the terrorists from entering their community. Where the terrorists managed to gain entrance, the butcher's bill was much higher. At Kibbutz Beeri (Named after Berl Katzenelson) they have counted 106 bodies so far plus a number of missing. Nir Oz has a similar number and other settlements as well. Whether or not the terrorists gained entrance was a question of distance from the border, luck and the skill of the civil defense unit which in most communities numbered about a dozen individuals. At Kibbutz Magen one member of the civil defence unit took up a position, which by chance overlooked the point where the terrorists gathered to penetrate the fence. He opened fire hitting several and the noise of his firing brought other members of the unit to his position. For the next seven hours they fought off repeated attempts to break in. As time passed they were joined by other members of the kibbutz who had military experience but they continued to fight off larger numbers than themselves. The cost was one member of the unit killed and two others wounded. However, where the terrorists gained entrance their aim was to kill as many Jews as possible.

One thing has become crystal clear for most Israelis. Not since the Nazis of World War Two have the Jews faced an enemy more intent on killing Jews than seeking the welfare of their own citizenry. Like Pearl Harbor was for the Japanese, tactically this was a victory for Hamas. But strategically it will come to be seen as a disaster. The human cost to the Palestinians in Gaza will be very high. The Hamas leadership has used the people of Gaza as human shields for along time. In this they have been aided and abbetted by "human rights" organizations whose one sided criticism of Israel has only encouraged Hamas leaders to create more human shields for themselves. Just as an aside, about two weeks ago the family members of the Hamas leadership left Gaza through Egypt. One must conclude that as long as it is not their own blood spilled, they find the human cost in Palestinian blood acceptable. That human cost, this time, will be very high and just between us, the common people of Gaza by and large, are not murderers but people mostly concerned with feeding, clothing and keeping a roof over their families' heads. They really don't deserve what is about to happen to them just as Dudi didn't deserve what happened to him and hundreds of others.

Efraim Perlmutter
Moshav Sde Nitzan
15 seconds Kassam flying time from Gaza

posted as a comment @https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2023/10/11/dual-statements-criticize-psc/

[EliJelly]

E. Theres a strike on Iran coming.

Source? On Iranian soil?

[CountValentine]

Source? On Iranian soil?

If US intelligence can show Iran was behind this horrific attack I see no less happening!

[yelped]

Yes, but they have had days. And the world is already starting kvetching about the siege. How much time will Israel have to accomplish its mission?

Another possibility to think about is the US twisting arms to keep the Israelis from going in until the US can pay billions of dollars to Hamas for the American hostages.

[avromie7]

Yes, but they have had days. And the world is already starting kvetching about the siege. How much time will Israel have to accomplish its mission?

A siege doesn't have much effect in its first few days, but after that it's effects are compounded. I give them credit for not hesitating before beginning the siege.

They've been stockpiling supplies for years. Hamas will have plenty for a long time, it's the regular Palestinians who are/will be SOL, as always.

You'll know supplies are starting to run low when the civilians start storming the Egyptian border. I'm sure Hamas stocked up for a long time, but the need to ration will definitely make it more difficult for them.

Sure they have diesel and batteries stored, but do they have enough and a system in place to use to to continue all their operations? Every time an airstrike takes out a fuel cache, they have no way to replace it.

A siege has been the most effective military operation in history, but it takes time.

[CountValentine]

And the world is already starting kvetching about the siege. How much time will Israel have to accomplish its mission?

It does not matter. The mission is to eliminate every Hamas member no matter how long it takes.
Of course, the support is going to change.  Suck it up and get the mission done sparing as many civilians that is realistic possible.

[jackofall]

1 thing I dont understand, why not shut all communication to and from the strip down. No internet, cell phone or regular phones. Would be my #1 item to do.

[AsherO]

Another possibility to think about is the US twisting arms to keep the Israelis from going in until the US can pay billions of dollars to Hamas for the American hostages.

In a vacuum, billions of dollars to spare lives and trauma on both sides is a small price to pay. Sadly it only rewards the perpetrators, kicks the can down the road, and incentivizes more death and trauma in the future.

Even if America has endless money, it can’t buy its way out of this reality.

[Dan]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CyRKsIJrPRs/

[CountValentine]

Another possibility to think about is the US twisting arms to keep the Israelis from going in until the US can pay billions of dollars to Hamas for the American hostages.

Since they never paid a dime in the first place, I expect this to be the same.