Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread

[CountValentine]

Makes zero difference. Not that I care. They’ve been funding these barbarians for decades while condemning Israel at every turn.

There are many in the world that care about Israel and support them. Why do you lump them all together?

[TimT]

RIP little angel. הי״ד

https://twitter.com/IDF/status/1715001156047396909

[CountValentine]

key difference is being emotionally involved or not
that is the line that separates

Many in the world are emotionally involved. You don't think Biden is emotionally involved?

[aygart]

What about initial claims by the UN and Rioters?


https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/official-statements/gaza-unrwa-school-sheltering-displaced-families-hithttps://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142432
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/least-6-people-killed-israeli-air-strike-unrwa-school-gaza-2023-10-17/
Can we expect a retraction?

https://www.israel365news.com/377430/errant-palestinian-terror-rocket-likely-killed-un-staff-in-gaza-says-idf/

[TimT]

There are many in the world that care about Israel and support them. Why do you lump them all together?

Anyone condemning Israel at the UN or sitting silent by as it happens doesn’t support Israel. Anyone sending them money which is used to fund terror & support families of terrorists doesn’t support Israel. No matter how strong a tweet their office releases. Actions speak louder than words.
Any nations not involved in these are not included in my statement.

[smurf]

She leaves the original tweet up, is calling for an independent investigation, & doesn’t condemn Islamic Jihad.
This was never about the poor innocent palestinian, it’s about hatred for Israel.

Same with NYT's "retraction"

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/business/media/hospital-blast-gaza-reports.html

Passing blame around, and no mention of the fact that the hospital is still standing!!

[LNS]

Many in the world are emotionally involved. You don't think Biden is emotionally involved?

to a certain extent
any moral decent person will be triggered but that doesn't make them emotionally involved

[Savingsbeast]

Is this where the goal posts are now? Applauding her because she retracted a false statement?

Hardly a retraction.

At best this is a reporting of some facts (IDF denied, US Intel assessment that it was not Israel).

And ends off with:
https://twitter.com/ilhanmn/status/1714802307819593741

She leaves the original tweet up, is calling for an independent investigation, & doesn’t condemn Islamic Jihad.
This was never about the poor innocent palestinian, it’s about hatred for Israel.

Is she calling for the prosecution of PIJ for war crimes?

Got a pretty strong reaction so let me try to elaborate further.

@zale I don't think her statement is false. She responded to an AP report that did in make that claim. The fact that it was false is not squarely on her. In fact, I place blame mostly if not entirely on the AP. Would she have been more cautious if it wasn't Israel? Most likely. However, I don't think that on the scale of things, relying on a internationally accepted news outlet is unreasonable. Additionally, in my view, her initial tweet wasn't too harsh. She didn't condemn or blame Israel, she stated "The IDF reportedly..". Call me ignorant but I think this is not the same as saying Israel bombed a hospital. The former suggests that it is an initial, not yet conclusive, repot while the latter is conclusive.

But my point wasn't that I thought her first tweet was fair and balanced. I was glad that unlike the vast majority of those blaming Israel doubling down, she did not. Was she quick to judgment? Yes. Is she biased against Israel? Most certainly. Was it a noble act? Definitely not! But, given the context of her position on Israel and how others reacted as more details emerged, her concession was in my view reasonable and showed some level of owning up to it.

I think you need to look up what the word retraction means.

Sorry, poor choice of words. Concede is the word I was going for. (I think you got the point I was trying to make)

[aygart]

Same with NYT's "retraction"

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/business/media/hospital-blast-gaza-reports.html

"After Hospital Blast, Headlines Shift With Changing Claims

The fast-moving events highlighted the difficulty of covering the war between Israel and Hamas."

It is not so difficult. Don't believe either side's claim of the other's responsibility without some level of verification.

[CountValentine]

to a certain extent
any moral decent person will be triggered but that doesn't make them emotionally involved

Then you need to explain what "emotionally involved" means.

[CountValentine]

Anyone condemning Israel at the UN or sitting silent by as it happens doesn’t support Israel. Anyone sending them money which is used to fund terror & support families of terrorists doesn’t support Israel. No matter how strong a tweet their office releases. Actions speak louder than words.
Any nations not involved in these are not included in my statement.

So now the default is you are pro-Hamas. 

[iwlw2]

So now the default is you are pro-Hamas. 

Why is that so hard? After the horrors perpertrated by those Nazis on Oct. 7, silence is violence as the BLM folks like to say.....

[LNS]

Then you need to explain what "emotionally involved" means.

do I really
when something happens to your immediate family vs something happens to someone you don't know

[CountValentine]

do I really
when something happens to your immediate family vs something happens to someone you don't know

Then your definition IMHO is different from the masses.
Millions were emotionally involved with what happen on 9/11 and did not lose and immediate family member.
ETA: After rereading my post, it comes as if I was telling you what you must do. It wasn't meant that way.

[aygart]

Many in the world are emotionally involved. You don't think Biden is emotionally involved?

I think that Biden getting triggered by the brutality and emotionally involved is a major deciding factor here.

[CountValentine]

silence is violence as the BLM folks like to say.....

I can link to many tragedies were DDF was silent, so I don't think you want to use that as a standard, or do you?

[TimT]

So now the default is you are pro-Hamas. 

If you’re sending hamas money which gets used to kill Israelis then yes, you’re pro-hamas. I’m sorry if that hurts anyones feelings.

[aygart]

I can link to many tragedies were DDF was silent, so I don't think you want to use that as a standard, or do you?

I agree. The expectation for everyone to condemn every injustice is ridiculous.

[Euclid]

I agree. The expectation for everyone to condemn every injustice is ridiculous.

This is a micro aggression

[iwlw2]

I agree. The expectation for everyone to condemn every injustice is ridiculous.

I agree as well. I meant specifically in the context of what the OP had written, which is countries remaining silent in the UN as votes are held condemning Israel, and certainly those countries who are actively supporting or sending money to the Ganazis....