Israel vs. Iran And Proxies: War Discussion Master Thread

[ExGingi]

Interview with head of the forensic medical institute describing what they are dealing with.

https://t.me/elirim/1077

[yelped]

Many were wondering when Biden was going to what looks like softening his support. My crystal ball says we might now see it. Optics of the refugee strike are terrible. Now don't shoot the messenger.

What makes it a "refugee camp" exactly? Looks like same sort of buildings as the rest of Gaza. UNRWA is the gift that keeps on delivering for Hamas.

[Traveler718]

China deletes Israel from its maps. Sure shows us who our friend and enemies are:

https://vinnews.com/2023/10/31/china-deletes-israel-from-online-maps/

[CountValentine]

What makes it a "refugee camp" exactly? Looks like same sort of buildings as the rest of Gaza.

Are you serious?

[yelped]

Are you serious?

Yes. I am making a point.

[CountValentine]

Yes. I am making a point.

What point is that? Israel didn't know it was a refugee camp?

[yfr bachur]

As someone who lives in Israel, i'll tell you something.

Most Chareidi families are protected from the horrors of the massacres because they make sure to keep that sort of media out of their house/devices.
But when you need to run to a protected when taking your children out to the park or to the store, like my wife has had to do on multiple occasions, it really hits home.
The kids don't know what happened on the border but they do know that when a siren sounds they must go as quick as possible to a protected area. My 2 year old daughter even says, "Woooooo, Azaka, Boom!" (Azaka means warning alarm/siren) It's the rockets that really makes one stressed out and feels that theres a war.

This is the disconnect of the average anglo chareidi in JLM from what is actually going on on the war.
The majority of the country has a family member on active duty.
I have at least five family members active including a combat medic in the units assigned to Gaza, a 40+ year old whos a grandfather called up specificaly becuase of unique skills he has...
Then the're are the cities under reletivaly constant bombardment...
You know there has been a measureable increase in the rate of strokes in the country over the past weeks. (consipracy theory = Iron Dome causes strokes  )

[yfr bachur]

What point is that? Israel didn't know it was a refugee camp?

No, that at some point you're just a "profesional refugee"  and really settled in place and collecting a nice living from the UN.
The people have been living in that neighborhood for decades, and the only difference between that one and the next one in Gaze is that the RC comes with a pension

[zalman2bis]

Why is most of this thread arguments and arguments?
Is anyone changing anyone's minds?

[CountValentine]

UNRWA is the gift that keeps on delivering for Hamas.

67 UNRWA workers have been killed so far.

[yfr bachur]

67 UNRWA workers have been killed so far.

The likelyhood is that a nice number of them had two employers

[yelped]

What point is that? Israel didn't know it was a refugee camp?

No. That there is no reason that Gaza would have something called a "refugee camp" when it should be the city, the same as the rest of Gaza. The only reason "Refugee Camps" exist is to demonize Israel and to perpetuate the conflict.

That was a separate point to your point. In regards to your point, no one should give a hoot on how to many casualties Hamas causes as you are enabling them. Israel tries to minimize civilian casualties, but at the end of the day is entitled and should get Hamas targets even when they hide behind civilians. Otherwise, you are enabling terrorists and more terror attacks. Quite simple for anyone who actually understands international law and cares about it more than using is as a cudgel to strike Israel with.

[aygart]

67 UNRWA workers have been killed so far.

Terror instructors?

[CountValentine]

Israel tries to minimize civilian casualties,

What does this actually mean? Not just for Israel but any war.
If we bomb this complex 100 civilians are going to die so we are going to get that number down to 90?

[CountValentine]

Terror instructors?

I would ask them, but they are dead. 

[aygart]

The pain a parent feels when they lose a child is the same pain to matter who's bomb it was.

Such as the ones who've said they hope their child becomes a "shahid"?

[Boruch999]

@ChaimMoskowitz  you seem to be confused about what a Palestinian refugee camp is.  The Jabaliya Refugee Camp is not a camp of refugees that have been replaced by this war. It was established in 1948 for Arabs displaced by the War of Independence. Because of UNRWA's deliberate incompetence, they refugees were never permanently settled and today the "refugee camp" is a city, or a neighborhood of Jabaliya, a city. Incidentally, it is in north Gaza, and the IDF has been begging civilians to leave for two weeks.

[CountValentine]

From WSJ: Mass Casualties Feared in North Gaza Blasts Amid Israeli Offensive
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/mass-casualties-feared-in-north-gaza-blasts-amid-israeli-offensive/ar-AA1j93bV?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=141c8f3647fb4395a08e8838ebefed95&ei=7

[aygart]

@ChaimMoskowitz

He returned?

[CountValentine]

Such as the ones who've said they hope their child becomes a "shahid"?

No