ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION

[Just A Jew]

The stated goal of this war is to eradicate Hamas. They've started in the north, and based off of pictures and clips which have been released, the north looks like it won't be habitable for quite some time. What's the plan once they finish in the north? How are they planning on getting Hamas out of the south? They can't make 2 million people evacuate to the north at this point...

[Euclid]

Homicide only means the killing happened at the hands of another. There is nothing in regard to culpability or intent.

There are different phrases that mean different things in different states. Some places call murder in the first degree capital murder. Likewise, manslaughter can come in varying degrees.

Hitting an elderly man in the head with a megaphone even without intent to seriously harm him, let alone kill, would be manslaughter. It is not murder, that would require intent.

Ah I was using homicide as a synonym to Murder. Point is that it's likely "only" manslaughter; maybe even only involuntary manslaughter. (Though it does seem to be a crime of passion which would make it voluntary. IANAL)

[Just A Jew]

I think this is the difference between manslaughter and homicide. Hitting someone without intent to kill isn't homicide.

I believe this is only part of the equation. Whether it was an intentional violent act, regardless of intent to kill, also plays a part, IINM.

[AsherO]

Good thread, but leftists gonna lefty:

This is what happens when you go too far making the distinction that Hamas ≠ Palestinians. While it is technically true, it’s still Palestinian society that spawned Hamas, and until something changes in their value system they can’t be a party to a peace agreement of any sort. Cognitive dissonance to the max.

[Yehuda57]

Ah I was using homicide as a synonym to Murder. Point is that it's likely "only" manslaughter; maybe even only involuntary manslaughter. (Though it does seem to be a crime of passion which would make it voluntary. IANAL)

Every district has distinct laws and varying degrees, but usually the charge would be that the suspect *should have known* the possible danger. Hitting an elderly man in the head with a megaphone would not be the same as hitting a 25 year old, just as it is not the same as firing a gun. A drunk driver likely doesn't intend to kill anyone, but they are responsible nonetheless as every reasonable person understands that is a reasonable outcome. Intent to kill only matters for additional charges of premeditated murder. Someone is not likely to get the death penalty unless it is premeditated.

[CountValentine]

Hitting an elderly man in the head with a megaphone would not be the same as hitting a 25 year old,

Other than his age what is the difference?

[Yehuda57]

Other than his age what is the difference?

It is more dangerous to hit an elderly person in the head with a megaphone than a 25 year old, hence the criminal culpability would be greater

[CountValentine]

It is more dangerous to hit an elderly person in the head with a megaphone than a 25 year old, hence the criminal culpability would be greater

Going to need a source for the criminal culpability. If he gets charged with involuntary manslaughter it is the same for 25 or 65 year old.

[notyettaken]

Other than his age what is the difference?

whether he will die

older people are more delicate. thinner skin, more fragile bones, more likely to be on blood thinning medication, more likely to get internal bleeding, brain injury etc.

 if a 25 year old trips they can get up and move on. If an older person trips they need the ER (even if they look fine)

[CountValentine]

whether he will die

older people are more delicate. thinner skin, more fragile bones, more likely to be on blood thinning medication, more likely to get internal bleeding, brain injury etc.

 if a 25 year old trips they can get up and move on. If an older person trips they need the ER (even if they look fine)

I am asking in a legal sense.

[notyettaken]

I am asking in a legal sense.

liability (or guilt) is based on whether the results were a reasonable outcome of his actions. On a young person it could be argued (maybe) that falling down and dyeing  was a freak accident. On an older person it is reasonable to assume that he may die as a result.

[Yehuda57]

Going to need a source for the criminal culpability. If he gets charged with involuntary manslaughter it is the same for 25 or 65 year old.

Technically, there isn't a clear differentiation in the law for age of the victim. But a key part of the involuntary manslaughter charge is how reckless the person was. This is a criminal lawyer's description of CA law: (emphasis mine)

With manslaughter, there are different degrees as well. There are three degrees of manslaughter, which carry different punishments. Voluntary manslaughter is an intentional killing that happened either because of “adequate provocation” or in an unreasonable attempt at self-defense. A voluntary manslaughter conviction carries a sentence of 3 to 11 years in prison. Involuntary manslaughter is an unintentional killing that happened during the commission of a misdemeanor or because of gross negligence (carelessness). Involuntary manslaughter carries a sentence of 2 to 4 years.

The negligence is a subjective standard, in which case the age of the victim in a case like this would definitely make a difference. Following a conviction, the judge is instructed to take all the circumstances of the event into consideration for sentencing, so age of the victim would impact that as well.

[aygart]

Going to need a source for the criminal culpability. If he gets charged with involuntary manslaughter it is the same for 25 or 65 year old.

Correct, but what he gets charged with can change.

[zale]

Correct, but what he gets charged with can change.

Will he get charged with a hate crime?

[TimT]

Will he get charged with a hate crime?

Nah. It was “mostly peaceful” & just “passionate”.

[CountValentine]

Will he get charged with a hate crime?

Let's find out first if a crime was committed and by who.

[CountValentine]

Nah. It was “mostly peaceful” & just “passionate”.

You are way past the deep end.

[m65]

https://www.srugim.co.il/861606-%d7%91%d7%90%d7%9e%d7%a6%d7%a2-%d7%94%d7%9c%d7%97%d7%99%d7%9e%d7%94-%d7%9c%d7%95%d7%97%d7%9d-%d7%a0%d7%98%d7%a2-%d7%a2%d7%a5-%d7%91%d7%92%d7%95%d7%a9-%d7%a7%d7%98%d7%99%d7%a3-%d7%a6%d7%a4%d7%95

[TimT]

https://twitter.com/TheMossadIL/status/1721960555617906864

[AsherO]

You are way past the deep end.

The deep end of what?