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« Last edited by ExGingi on November 27, 2023, 05:15:11 PM »

Author Topic: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION  (Read 659978 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #9140 on: February 27, 2024, 08:57:34 AM »
https://x.com/robertmsterling/status/1762274091560534469

Quote
Israel having to negotiate for the release of its civilian hostages is among the most absurd and humiliating things I’ve ever seen in my life.

These aren’t POWs being exchanged among warring nations after having been captured in battle. They’re KIDNAPPING VICTIMS, forcibly dragged from their homes at gunpoint and kept in underground rat tunnels for months. Yet Israel has to send delegations to Paris and kindly ask that the governments of Qatar and Egypt—those noted bastions of human rights!—intercede and convince Hamas terrorists to release them, in exchange for Israel releasing violent criminals (with a ratio that will undoubtedly be an order of magnitude greater, of course). As if civilian hostages and Hamas militants are morally fungible.

Maybe I’m just a dumb Marine who doesn’t understand the world of diplomacy, but it feels like nothing less than a ritual in forced humiliation. Having to barter for the safe return of women and children. Rape victims and babies.

It’s repugnant.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t blame Israel for doing anything its power to secure the safe return of its people. I respect them for seeking resolution using all the means at its disposal. God knows, I’d do nothing less in their situation.

But Israel shouldn’t *have to*. Hamas releasing the civilian hostages it seized on October 7th should be a basic prerequisite for all other points of consideration here. Returning the hostages should *precede* negotiations for a ceasefire, not be used as a bargaining chip in exchange for one.

Then again, what do I know? I’m just a random guy on Twitter who continues to be shocked at the utter moral cowardice evinced by so many public figures, global leaders, and political officials since October 7th. Surely, I’m missing something in my understanding of the situation. After all, there’s significant historical nuance here, and the dynamics are far more complex than terrorists simply having kidnapped, raped, and murdered innocent people.

Right?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #9141 on: February 27, 2024, 10:12:11 AM »
https://open.substack.com/pub/volodzko/p/the-case-for-colonizing-gaza
The problem in Palestinian society is not Hamas. It is not the establishment of the State of Israel or any of the conflicts that have been waged as a result. The problem in Palestinian society is not a consequence of the conditions under which Gazans live, which are not remotely as bad as you may think on any metric given that Palestinians are far wealthier, healthier, and safer than any picketing nitwit might imagine.

Nor is the problem to do with Israeli settlements in the West Bank, retaliatory IDF airstrike campaigns, the Nakba displacement of Palestinians, U.S. foreign policy, or Iranian regional meddling. In the simplest terms, the problem—and indeed the root cause of the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians—lies with the Palestinian people themselves and their hate-soaked culture.

We are only now waking up from the misguided efforts of Franz Boaz, Michel Foucault, and the rest of the moral relativists who convinced so many of us to drink deep of the lie that all religions are created equal and all cultures are worth saving. Yet we know better than to pretend the culture of contemporary New Zealand is comparable to the culture of Nazi Germany. The militarist culture of Imperial Japan and the jihadist culture of Islamist Iran are abject failures whose legacies include such achievements as the Nanjing Massacre and October 7.

Of course, even the worst cultures are not wholly bad. There are many unspeakably beautiful aspects of Iranian culture. More importantly, jihadism does not represent all Iranians and not all Germans supported the Nazis. In fact, only 38.7% of eligible German voters did so in 1933, and that number later rose to 44%. About 25% of Hutu men took part in the Rwandan genocide in one way or another, but 75% did not.

Therefore, because there’s always something to be saved and because no people are ever wholly to be condemned, we always have reason to try. Thankfully in the case of both Germany and Japan, we were able to save their victims and their own citizens, not only from the regimes that ruled them but from the hell we would have otherwise been forced to visit upon them had their salvation been impossible.

Germany is today one of the greatest countries in the world and the economic raft of Europe, while Japan holds a similar position in Asia and its people are arguably the kindest and most polite of any on Earth. This is an absolutely stunning achievement. We took two of the most powerful and evil regimes in history and transformed them into liberal, peace-loving societies. How was this miracle accomplished? Quite simply, we occupied both nations, reeducated and democratized their populations, restructured their governments, put their war criminals on trial, and demilitarized and denazified their societies. We ripped them down to the bone and started fresh.

We should do the same with Palestinians. Whether Israel colonizes Gaza and the West Bank or temporarily imposes a military occupation until the rate of violent psychopathy drops significantly below 80%, either would be better for both sides than the status quo. As it stands, 82% of West Bankers believe what Hamas did on October 7 was “correct.” This isn’t isolated to October 7 either. The Palestinian movement was in part begun by Amin al-Husseini, a literal Nazi who sent Jewish children to Nazi death camps and later laughed about it. Nor have they ever conducted themselves with anything resembling human decency.

In 1971, two Palestinian terrorists murdered Jordanian Prime Minister Wasfi Tal. The Palestinians had set up shop in Jordan to launch terrorist attacks against Israel. Jordan was not about to let a band of psychopaths wage war from its front yard, so it told them to leave and they responded by assaulting families, torturing and executing people, and assassinating the prime minister. When they killed Tal, one of the assassins got down on his knees like a dog and began lapping up the blood. A more literal example of bloodthirsty savages you will never find. Sharing the story on X, Richard Hanania sarcastically remarked, “Palestinians have always been a great people welcomed wherever they go.”

Yet this is exactly the sort of thing Palestinians celebrate. These are their heroes. Bloodthirsty savages dancing around the corpses of raped teenage girls. Infants in ovens. Elderly passersby stabbed in the neck for the crime of being Jewish. This is not just part of their culture, but has become the central theme of their culture, and I only say this because it is what repeated surveys show, year in and year out, across multiple acts of terrorism and endless instances of brutal violence and rape, because their own leaders explicitly say they want genocide and because they and their supporters explicitly chant for genocide. This isn’t an accusation. They brag about it themselves.

Palestinians are more genocidal, in terms of civilian support for genocidal violence, than the Germans were under Hitler. Twice as much, in fact. What’s more, Germans had long suffered grueling conditions, the kind that can sour the brain and radicalize good people to support evil things, the kind that pro-Palestinians protesters claim justifies the violence of Hamas. In the 1930s, about 6 million Germans were unemployed, and thanks to World War I reparations payments, the German economy was in free fall. Germany had no international credit rating. The nation was near bankruptcy. Hyperinflation during the Weimar Republic had reached rates of 30,000% per month, which meant prices doubled every other day or so. People were struggling to recover from the war and now they had zero chance of even keeping up.

By contrast, Gaza before the current war looked like a tropical resort. In fact, Gazans themselves have posted videos of Gaza before the war to highlight the contrast now that many areas have been reduced to rubble. But the before is just as shocking to many as the after because some of the images look better than many European cities. Just look at this video, or this one, or this one, or this one. In addition to living in a beachside garden while murdering Jewish children over their alleged and self-imposed oppression, consider the fact that Gazans live longer and are wealthier than the global average, are more obese, better funded, enjoy less densely crowded cities than many Israelis, and yet still pretend as if they have it worse off than Syrians.

But remember, 72% of Palestinians now support Hamas—and that support has only gone up since October 7. In the West Bank, after Hamas and other terrorist organizations kidnapped, raped, and murdered innocent Israelis—including infants, their fellow Muslims, and pro-Palestinian activists—support for Hamas tripled.

So on what basis are Palestinians oppressed? The occupation, they tell us. But this in fact ended in 2005 when Israel evacuated every member of its army from the Gaza Strip, dismantled all 21 Israeli settlements, and removed 8,000 settlers, going house to house and breaking down doors when necessary. The withdrawal was absolute and severe. Israel sent in demolition crews to raze 2,800 homes and 26 synagogues, shattering communities and demoralizing families. They even took apart a cemetery in the Gush Katif settlement and removed its 48 graves. Some called it a desecration.

There was also the question of what to do with the settlers’ lush greenhouses. A number of settlers simply gave their greenhouses to the Palestinians to help them develop their economy, but many were unwilling to simply forgo such a valuable possession, so a group of American Jewish donors paid $14 million to buy over 3,000 greenhouses, which they then gave to the Palestinians. The Palestinians in turn destroyed the greenhouses as the Palestinian Authority sat back and watched.

In the end, Israelis and Jews abroad destroyed communities on their side, dug up graves, and spent millions to give the Palestinians a home with running water, so to speak. But the Palestinians don’t want a home, and have never wanted one. They want a base of operations for the Holocaust. Give them running water and they will take the plumbing apart to beat Jews to death with galvanized pipes.

So although the narrative regarding the occupation of Gaza is little more than a poorly constructed lie, it’s also not a bad idea. Maybe Israel should occupy Gaza, or even colonize it for a few decades. If the alternative is waiting for the next Hamas attack and then either allowing Jewish civilians to be slaughtered or retaliating which, given the way Hamas has deliberately set up the chess board, means far more Gazans will die, then it would clearly be best for everyone to avoid more death on both sides.

If you truly cherish Palestinian life, then you have to recognize that to truly liberate the Palestinian people necessarily includes liberating them not only from Hamas but from their own genocidal racist hatred. Because every crime Israel is accused of committing against the Palestinians, Hamas is already doing and doing many times worse—to the Palestinians. More than this, they have no real future until we can liberate their children from the idea that their lives are without meaning except in the act of murdering Jews.

I am not suggesting Israel adopt a scorched earth policy. In fact, I think Israel should end the airstrikes, which cause more loss of life than necessary. Instead, Israel should never have left Gaza in the first place. Palestinians have proven what they want and remind us every chance they get. Their leaders go on television to remind us also. The people themselves support these leaders more when they say such things and even more when they follow through. What they want, and are painfully clear about wanting, is another Holocaust.

Therefore, Israel should remain in Gaza, occupy it or even colonize it, tear the disgusting racism from their textbooks, put Hamas members on trial, rebuild their economy, liberate their women, ensure the safety of their gay and trans members, intellectuals, artists, and non-Muslims, and build a future for their people.

I have hope that this is possible because Gazans are turning on Hamas and coming to grow sick of the costs of their own genocidal hatred. For while 82% of people in the West Bank think October 7 was good, only 57% of Gazans agree. In previous years, it has generally been the case that Gazans are more extremist, not less. But the weight of this particular war falls more fully upon their shoulders, and perhaps their backs are beginning to break. Perhaps they are losing their appetite for blood. Or perhaps their love of their own children is finally outgrowing their hatred of Jewish children.

As Christopher Hitchens once said of Iraq, the war against Gaza is a war for Gaza. Colonizing Gaza will not only keep Jewish children safe but also prevent further loss of life on the Palestinian side when the next generation again attempts genocide and Israel again pounds them into the sand. This will also help put them on the path to economic and societal progress, because despite everything I have said above, they are still a people in possession of a culture, despite its flaws, that is worth saving, and they still deserve a chance to thrive and be happy. Their children can thank us later.

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #9142 on: February 27, 2024, 11:51:53 AM »
Repost from 2013. Includes a psak that Hamas is the entire nation. (An entire nation?)

Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

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Offline yelped

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Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline AsherO

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #9146 on: February 27, 2024, 08:04:52 PM »
https://www.axios.com/2024/02/27/israel-sign-letter-international-law-weapons-us-aid

Total Gazalighting from the US government, this memorandum combined with pressures on Israel to agree to a hostage deal before Ramadan. It isn’t by chance that both those events (the memorandum and the hostage deal that’s being negotiated) have a 45-day clock.
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #9150 on: February 28, 2024, 08:50:35 AM »
https://m.jpost.com/business-and-innovation/banking-and-finance/article-789364
This is not an Israel-US issue. It's against multiple countries for illegally subsidizing exports - Brazil, India, Israel, Mexico, South Africa, South Korea ITC 701-TA-686-688 and 731-TA-1612-1617.  You can google the case numbers and get the preliminary report and other papers int he case - which was brought by 3 private entities - "On April 27, 2023, the American Brass Rod Fair Trade Coalition, Washington, District of Columbia; Mueller Brass Co., Port Huron, Michigan; and Wieland Chase LLC, Montpelier, Ohio filed petitions with the Commission and Commerce, alleging that an industry in the United States is materially injured or threatened with material injury by reason of subsidized imports of brass rod from India, Israel, and South Korea and LTFV ["lower than fair value"] imports of brass rod from Brazil, India, Israel, Mexico, South Africa, and South Korea. Accordingly, effective April 27, 2023, the Commission instituted countervailing duty investigation Nos. 701-TA-686-688 and antidumping duty investigation Nos. 731-TA-1612-1617 (Preliminary)."

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #9151 on: February 29, 2024, 10:49:53 AM »
https://x.com/afp/status/1762248021310325022
“Oops I did it again I played with your hearts” Joe F. Brandon

Followed by Hamas releasing a psychological warfare video.

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #9152 on: February 29, 2024, 11:48:55 AM »
https://twitter.com/2023gazawar

I came across an interesting account

Map
https://t.co/JXeZovCUUY
« Last Edit: February 29, 2024, 11:53:33 AM by mgarfin »

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« Last Edit: February 29, 2024, 02:34:58 PM by TimT »

Offline TimT

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #9154 on: February 29, 2024, 02:33:40 PM »
Defense Secretary Austin now quoting numbers directly from the Gaza health ministry and the pentagon says they can’t independently verify it.

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #9155 on: February 29, 2024, 02:57:05 PM »
Defense Secretary Austin now quoting numbers directly from the Gaza health ministry and the pentagon says they can’t independently verify it.
Michigan has spoken
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #9156 on: February 29, 2024, 02:57:44 PM »
Another Hamas fabrication today that all the media lapped right up. No shame and lessons learned from the made up 500 dead hospital story.

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #9157 on: February 29, 2024, 03:30:24 PM »
Alright internet, do your thing - https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-789498

If it's not free shipping it's not worth it.

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #9158 on: February 29, 2024, 04:15:51 PM »
Michigan has spoken
Meh. Hamas got 13% VS Biden’s 81%. And that’s Michigan.

Offline mgarfin

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Re: ISRAEL-HAMAS SIMCHAT TORAH WAR NEWS AND DISCUSSION
« Reply #9159 on: February 29, 2024, 04:48:17 PM »
Defense Secretary Austin now quoting numbers directly from the Gaza health ministry and the pentagon says they can’t independently verify it.

IDF Spokesman said in his briefing today that 13,000 combatants were killed in Gaza
« Last Edit: February 29, 2024, 04:51:55 PM by mgarfin »