Author Topic: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?  (Read 46600 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Re: Random questions.
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2023, 01:14:26 PM »
5784 years ago.
You can then choose a religious, historical or factual path to go down.

I recall once reading an interview with professor Aumann (Nobel laureate for his contributions in game theory) where he stated that if the argument starts at any point in time other than relying on Biblical times, then we can't win against the Arabs.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Re: Random questions.
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2023, 01:15:15 PM »
Have you ever been in mediation or arbitration? You have to have ground rules.

Exactly. It is for this very reason that the official Palestinian position is that there is no historical Jewish connection to the land. They say there were no Temples, no kings, nothing. Bill Clinton famously blew up at Arafat because he thought the guy was being such a huge imbecile making these claims. The Palestinian ground rule is that Jews have no connection to the land, not a single Jew belongs there, and Palestine must be free, from the river to the sea, Judenrein.

This is not me saying so, this is their entire history of mediation and negotiation with Jews, and explicitly stated in their founding charters and mission statements.

Jewish ground rules have been, since day one*, We Jews belong here, we want to live here, you can live here too, either with us or make yourself a state next to us.**

*day one can be any point in history. Whether it is Zionist or non-Zionist, pre 1948 or post 1948.

**this line was slightly modified after posting

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2023, 01:16:24 PM »
That is a problem.
All people of religion will claim that.

All "Abrahamic" religions take the Jewish religion as their foundation/predecessor.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Re: Random questions.
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2023, 01:16:47 PM »
You then go on to say that the map is "100% correct" while also saying the map is incorrectly marked as green because "they are one-sided". Those can't both be true.
This whole conflict is about disputed territory. The video says the says/implies the green is settlements. That is factually wrong. The map designates the green as land not settlements. Both sides lied or slanted it in their favor.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2023, 01:17:24 PM »
All "Abrahamic" religions take the Jewish religion as their foundation/predecessor.
We are not going to go there.
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Offline flyingace

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2023, 01:17:45 PM »
That is a problem.
All people of religion will claim that.
The Jewish people exist only as a nation-religion. There is no part of our experience that can be studied without the religious factor.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2023, 01:19:35 PM »
When did Islam start?
Don't know and why does that matter?
What does the Quran say about Jerusalem?
I don't think anything.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2023, 01:21:08 PM »
The Jewish people exist only as a nation-religion. There is no part of our experience that can be studied without the religious factor.
I understand that.
What religion do Jewish Christians believe in?
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2023, 01:21:22 PM »
We are not going to go there.

Why not?

Was Jesus not Jewish?

Does Islam reject the truth of Judaism?

The fact the Christianity and Islam claim a different LATER prophecy/covenant or whatever doesn't deny the truth of what what they all admit predates them. Am I wrong? (I am not here for a deep theological discussion, just basic superficial facts regarding "Abrahamic" religions).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #69 on: October 30, 2023, 01:22:15 PM »
I understand that.
What religion do Jewish Christians believe in?

Christianity. (Earliest Christians were all Jewish IINM).

How is that relevant?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline flyingace

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2023, 01:22:23 PM »
I understand that.
What religion do Jewish Christians believe in?
I have no idea. What is a Jewish Christian? A Jew who converts to Christianity is still a Jew, no matter what he believes.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Re: Random questions.
« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2023, 01:22:33 PM »
The map designates the green as land not settlements.

No, the map denotes the green land as PALESTINE. If what you are saying was correct, there would be white for Jewish settlements, green for land, and then a third color for Arab settlements, just like the Jews.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2023, 01:23:20 PM »
This whole conflict is about disputed territory.

Ding Ding Ding

It. Is. Not. It is about removing Jews from ALL the territory. There has NEVER been an acceptable amount of Jews or Jewish land in the Palestinian view. And if there has been, please show it to me. Please show me a peace plan that was proposed or accepted by Palestinians.

Why did Arabs massacre Jews prior to 1948?

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2023, 01:33:51 PM »
Ding Ding Ding

It. Is. Not. It is about removing Jews from ALL the territory. There has NEVER been an acceptable amount of Jews or Jewish land in the Palestinian view. And if there has been, please show it to me. Please show me a peace plan that was proposed or accepted by Palestinians.

Why did Arabs massacre Jews prior to 1948?
exactly and anytime this asinine two side to every story crap comes up. What will it take for people to wake up and see this is nothing but pure evil. Evil always has an excuse or an “other side”. Sometimes it’s just that evil and there is no other side. No reason to go back to this crappy political debate or start making arguments. What needs to be done should be done to protect every single yid in ey and that is the only Prism we should see from.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2023, 01:35:24 PM »
I have no idea. What is a Jewish Christian? A Jew who converts to Christianity is still a Jew, no matter what he believes.
Not going to go there either.
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Offline JMHO

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2023, 01:42:41 PM »
Someone seems to be avoiding the hard questions... I wonder why...

I will not ping him!

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2023, 01:44:34 PM »

Why did Arabs massacre Non Zionist Jews in 1920 (Jerusalem) and 1929 (Hebron and more)?

A little more specific.

And a point that I think is missed or overlooked, as none of us have lived or seen anything other that Nation-States or some kind of a Union or Confederation. This is a relatively modern thing. The Turkish empires ruled over the land of Israel/Province of Palestine/Province of Syria for hundreds of years.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline imayid2

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2023, 01:45:38 PM »
The fact the Christianity and Islam claim a different LATER prophecy/covenant or whatever doesn't deny the truth of what what they all admit predates them. Am I wrong? (I am not here for a deep theological discussion, just basic superficial facts regarding "Abrahamic" religions).
Islam (unlike Christianity) believes the Bible was corrupted, there are many things in it that they believe never took place.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #78 on: October 30, 2023, 01:47:48 PM »
Someone seems to be avoiding the hard questions... I wonder why...

I will not ping him!
You want a discussion about our religions? Is that what you want?
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Offline aygart

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Re: Starting Point Of Israel/Palestine Conflict?
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2023, 01:51:25 PM »
Someone seems to be avoiding the hard questions... I wonder why...

I will not ping him!

Me! I am avoiding this conversation!
Feelings don't care about your facts