Author Topic: Rally in Washington 11/14/23  (Read 63089 times)

Offline stooges44

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #620 on: November 16, 2023, 12:27:03 PM »
If it's not free shipping it's not worth it.

Offline davidd75

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #621 on: November 16, 2023, 12:44:52 PM »
Anybody know if anyone is contemplating suing the drivers/company that apparently refused to take the detroit group to the rally?

I imagine a skillful lawyer may be able to show enough evidence that the drivers/company based their decision that the group was Jewish but now I am thinking they the drivers can spin it that it was politically motivated and not religiously motivated which may be a less protected class?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2023, 12:53:25 PM by davidd75 »

Offline Dan

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #622 on: November 16, 2023, 12:47:35 PM »
Anybody know if anyone is contemplating suing the drivers/company that apparently refused to take the detroit group to the rally?

I imagine a skillful lawyer may be able to show enough evidence that the drivers/company based their decision that the group was Jewish but now I am thinking they can spin it was politically motivated and not religiously motivated which may be a less protected class?
If they're interested, there are lawyers that would take it pro bono.
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Offline davidd75

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #623 on: November 16, 2023, 12:55:20 PM »
If they're interested, there are lawyers that would take it pro bono.

maybe this can be another DD worthy successful mission.  How can we start finding the right pro bono attorney?  Anybody with leads please let me know

Offline TimT

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #624 on: November 16, 2023, 12:58:47 PM »

For people who go to synagogue once a year, the shofar comprises a significant percent of their yiddishkeit.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #625 on: November 16, 2023, 01:03:02 PM »
Who is going to be sued? The company didn't refuse, it was the drivers. The company can fire the drivers, and I'd assume they will, unless there aren't enough bus drivers around. If you sue the company, they'll tell you the truth - we tried to fulfill our contract but didn't have any drivers.

Offline davidd75

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #626 on: November 16, 2023, 01:08:09 PM »
Who is going to be sued? The company didn't refuse, it was the drivers. The company can fire the drivers, and I'd assume they will, unless there aren't enough bus drivers around. If you sue the company, they'll tell you the truth - we tried to fulfill our contract but didn't have any drivers.

is there an angle to sue the drivers themselves?

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #627 on: November 16, 2023, 01:11:53 PM »
is there an angle to sue the drivers themselves?

IANAL, but I don't think the passengers have any claim to the drivers as the contract was with the bus company, not the drivers. The company would be the one that was damaged by the drivers, so suing the drivers would be up to them, though I'm fairly certain their redress ends with firing them and there isn't any more they can sue for.

Offline davidd75

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #628 on: November 16, 2023, 01:23:35 PM »
IANAL, but I don't think the passengers have any claim to the drivers as the contract was with the bus company, not the drivers. The company would be the one that was damaged by the drivers, so suing the drivers would be up to them, though I'm fairly certain their redress ends with firing them and there isn't any more they can sue for.

Not as a breach of contract suit but as a religious discrimination suit.  Can a private individual refuse to service someone based on their religion?

maybe some lawyers in this area can chime in?

Offline iwlw2

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #629 on: November 16, 2023, 01:24:59 PM »
Not a mention of the rally. Anyone have the Yated ?


b
It's front page of Hamodia, although I didnt get a chance to look inside yet.

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #630 on: November 16, 2023, 01:32:45 PM »
I agree with all of that, I would add that I feel that this had nothing to do with the leadership and organization. We all came because we felt showing up would make a difference, not out of allegiance to any particular organization or in support of any particular program or speaker.

The frum turnout was huge. Tens of thousands, entire schools, really a huge amount of frum Jews. Add to that the number of college students that came with Chabad and other frum-led trips, the number is tremendous. Honestly, without Orthodox communities, the crowd would have been a joke.

Accordingly, the Federation made unprecedented accommodations for the frum communities. I think this is a huge opportunity to build on that. A more united front should be presented to the Federation so that we should not have to feel like grateful second-class citizens when they adjust a program to include us. We are the growing, building, living present and future of Judaism. A Federation that wants to remain relevant needs to acknowledge that and incorporate us accordingly.

Seems like a good place to start would be here:


Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #631 on: November 16, 2023, 01:34:52 PM »
Not as a breach of contract suit but as a religious discrimination suit.  Can a private individual refuse to service someone based on their religion?

maybe some lawyers in this area can chime in?

You're suing because they breached a contract based on religious discrimination. You're not suing random individuals who hate Jews, you are suing bus drivers who refused to drive Jews. They have no obligation to you to drive you. The *company* has an obligation to drive you, they made a contract with you. The drivers have an obligation to drive as employees of the company.

Once again, IANAL

Offline AsherO

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #632 on: November 16, 2023, 01:40:30 PM »
The frum turnout was huge. Tens of thousands, entire schools, really a huge amount of frum Jews. Add to that the number of college students that came with Chabad and other frum-led trips, the number is tremendous. Honestly, without Orthodox communities, the crowd would have been a joke.

The Haredi (visibly ultra-orthodox, call it what you want) presence was lacking/disproportionately small.
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Offline ushdadude

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #633 on: November 16, 2023, 01:41:54 PM »
Not as a breach of contract suit but as a religious discrimination suit.  Can a private individual refuse to service someone based on their religion?

maybe some lawyers in this area can chime in?
Can a bakery refuse to bake a cake for a wedding they don't approve of? I heard something about that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #634 on: November 16, 2023, 01:46:15 PM »
The Haredi (visibly ultra-orthodox, call it what you want) presence was lacking/disproportionately small.

I don't know where you draw your "ultra" lines. No matter where you do, there were thousands of Hareidi Jews at a Federation-run event, tens of thousands with yarmulkes/sheitels etc. That is insane.

Offline Ver hut gazugt

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #635 on: November 16, 2023, 01:46:24 PM »
I agree with all of that, I would add that I feel that this had nothing to do with the leadership and organization. We all came because we felt showing up would make a difference, not out of allegiance to any particular organization or in support of any particular program or speaker.

The frum turnout was huge. Tens of thousands, entire schools, really a huge amount of frum Jews. Add to that the number of college students that came with Chabad and other frum-led trips, the number is tremendous. Honestly, without Orthodox communities, the crowd would have been a joke.

Accordingly, the Federation made unprecedented accommodations for the frum communities. I think this is a huge opportunity to build on that. A more united front should be presented to the Federation so that we should not have to feel like grateful second-class citizens when they adjust a program to include us. We are the growing, building, living present and future of Judaism. A Federation that wants to remain relevant needs to acknowledge that and incorporate us accordingly.
and the sense I got was that the crowd would have more then welcomed a frum Rov giving a talk.

Offline Dan

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #636 on: November 16, 2023, 01:48:34 PM »
The Haredi (visibly ultra-orthodox, call it what you want) presence was lacking/disproportionately small.
Saw tons of Haredi representation from CLE.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #637 on: November 16, 2023, 01:48:48 PM »
and the sense I got was that the crowd would have more then welcomed a frum Rov giving a talk.
As explained upthread, that would be more problematic.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #638 on: November 16, 2023, 01:49:05 PM »
I don't know where you draw your "ultra" lines. No matter where you do, there were thousands of Hareidi Jews at a Federation-run event, tens of thousands with yarmulkes/sheitels etc. That is insane.

In a crowd of 290k Jews on the East Coast? What would you expect a proportionate number to be?

I felt like I saw fewer non-Chabad black hats than I expected.
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Offline jye

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #639 on: November 16, 2023, 02:02:17 PM »
Can a bakery refuse to bake a cake for a wedding they don't approve of? I heard something about that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission
The analogy is probably flawed. The bakery would not have been within its rights to refuse to sell a loaf of bread to a gay person; the religious expression of the wedding cake with two grooms on it was the issue in that case. However, I doubt this has leg to stand on. They would claim that it wasn’t about a particular religion but a political viewpoint, and a political party is not a protected class.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2023, 02:09:08 PM by jye »