Author Topic: Rally in Washington 11/14/23  (Read 63148 times)

Offline TimT

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #640 on: November 16, 2023, 02:05:25 PM »
“The right (left) to bare arms”




Offline davidd75

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #641 on: November 16, 2023, 02:10:09 PM »
You're suing because they breached a contract based on religious discrimination. You're not suing random individuals who hate Jews, you are suing bus drivers who refused to drive Jews. They have no obligation to you to drive you. The *company* has an obligation to drive you, they made a contract with you. The drivers have an obligation to drive as employees of the company.

Once again, IANAL

Precisely because as you pointed out the company can shift the blame to the individual drivers and say there was nothing they could have done is why I am trying to explore another angle.  Forget the company and contract.  Can a private individual decide to drive some people and not others based on religion?  Can a owner of a private boat decide to rent to some and not others?

Offline davidd75

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #642 on: November 16, 2023, 02:13:43 PM »
The analogy is probably flawed. The bakery would not have been within its rights to refuse to sell a loaf of bread to a gay person; the religious expression of the wedding cake with two grooms on it was the issue in that case. However, I doubt this has leg to stand on. They would claim that it wasn’t about a particular religion but a political viewpoint, and a political party is not a protected class.
[/b]

Thats what I hinted to upthread and was skeptical about is that the drivers can easily spin this a political anti-Israel stance

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #643 on: November 16, 2023, 02:24:12 PM »
Precisely because as you pointed out the company can shift the blame to the individual drivers and say there was nothing they could have done is why I am trying to explore another angle.  Forget the company and contract.  Can a private individual decide to drive some people and not others based on religion?  Can a owner of a private boat decide to rent to some and not others?
I don't understand this post at all.
Private individuals don't have to drive anyone anywhere. The only obligation these drivers have to drive anyone is by virtue of them being hired by the charter company.

Of course a private boat owner can choose who they let use their boat. When they start offering the rental out to the public then discrimination laws will come in to play.

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #644 on: November 16, 2023, 02:39:46 PM »
If they're interested, there are lawyers that would take it pro bono.

I saw somewhere that the organizers were not interested in pursuing legal action.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #645 on: November 16, 2023, 02:43:08 PM »
I saw somewhere that the organizers were not interested in pursuing legal action.
They wouldn't even name the bus company.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #646 on: November 16, 2023, 02:49:57 PM »
I would imagine it can be alleged that the bus company condoned the illegal discriminatory behavior of the drivers unless there was proportionate disciplinary action against the drivers doled out by the bus company. They also likely have a company handbook with policies that specify that illegal & discriminatory behavior would be subject to such discipline.

However, on an individual driver basis, it might be difficult for the company to prove that each individual driver did not show up because of discriminatory reasons.
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Offline davidd75

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #647 on: November 16, 2023, 02:54:50 PM »
I don't understand this post at all.
Private individuals don't have to drive anyone anywhere. The only obligation these drivers have to drive anyone is by virtue of them being hired by the charter company.

Of course a private boat owner can choose who they let use their boat. When they start offering the rental out to the public then discrimination laws will come in to play.
hypothetically, What if a private boat owner  says they dont let Yidden use the boat because they are yidden?

Offline aygart

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #648 on: November 16, 2023, 02:56:03 PM »
hypothetically, What if a private boat owner  says they dont let Yidden use the boat because they are yidden?

Do you mean they lend out their boat to everyone on the block except the Jew?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #649 on: November 16, 2023, 03:03:52 PM »
hypothetically, What if a private boat owner  says they dont let Yidden use the boat because they are yidden?

Well within their rights

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #650 on: November 16, 2023, 03:13:57 PM »
I don't know where you draw your "ultra" lines. No matter where you do, there were thousands of Hareidi Jews at a Federation-run event, tens of thousands with yarmulkes/sheitels etc. That is insane.

Couldn't agree more :P

Offline davidd75

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #651 on: November 16, 2023, 03:41:04 PM »
Do you mean they lend out their boat to everyone on the block except the Jew?

yea something like that they lend to others but not to Yidden because they are yidden

Offline aishel

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #652 on: November 16, 2023, 03:44:19 PM »
Anybody know if anyone is contemplating suing the drivers/company that apparently refused to take the detroit group to the rally?

I imagine a skillful lawyer may be able to show enough evidence that the drivers/company based their decision that the group was Jewish but now I am thinking they the drivers can spin it that it was politically motivated and not religiously motivated which may be a less protected class?
My brother-in-law is an attorney who used to do civil rights cases and was one of the people affected. They're actively pursuing it behind the scenes, and asked everyone involved not to talk about it to the media while they can build their case. I haven't heard any updates yet.
Can a bakery refuse to bake a cake for a wedding they don't approve of? I heard something about that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission
I was thinking about this also, but the difference is that the bakery is refusing to take the job in the first place because of a religious stance. In this case, the bus company agreed to the job, only to walk out on it later on what is presumably an infringement on first amendment rights.

Offline aishel

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Offline davidd75

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #654 on: November 16, 2023, 03:57:35 PM »
My brother-in-law is an attorney who used to do civil rights cases and was one of the people affected. They're actively pursuing it behind the scenes, and asked everyone involved not to talk about it to the media while they can build their case. I haven't heard any updates yet. I was thinking about this also, but the difference is that the bakery is refusing to take the job in the first place because of a religious stance. In this case, the bus company agreed to the job, only to walk out on it later on what is presumably an infringement on first amendment rights.

thanks for the update
good to hear someone is taking up the cause as that was obnoxious what they did if true(wonder if many of the drivers had Aravi descent, BLM or just pure leftists)
so we might hear something soon?

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #655 on: November 16, 2023, 04:18:19 PM »
My brother-in-law is an attorney who used to do civil rights cases and was one of the people affected. They're actively pursuing it behind the scenes, and asked everyone involved not to talk about it to the media while they can build their case. I haven't heard any updates yet. I was thinking about this also, but the difference is that the bakery is refusing to take the job in the first place because of a religious stance. In this case, the bus company agreed to the job, only to walk out on it later on what is presumably an infringement on first amendment rights.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #656 on: November 16, 2023, 04:39:33 PM »
yea something like that they lend to others but not to Yidden because they are yidden

Their bigotry is protected free speech.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aishel

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #657 on: November 16, 2023, 04:40:50 PM »
Their bigotry is protected free speech.
Even when that bigotry directly infringes on someone else's right to free speech?

Offline aygart

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #658 on: November 16, 2023, 04:43:05 PM »
Even when that bigotry directly infringes on someone else's right to free speech?
Yeah of course. I have no obligation to your free speech.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #659 on: November 16, 2023, 04:59:31 PM »
Yeah of course. I have no obligation to your free speech.

In the case of the bus company, the Civil rights act does not allow them to discriminate because of religion.
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