Rally in Washington 11/14/23

[Definitions2]

At any rate, I don't see the point in further debate here. Everyone can talk to their own LOR.

That I agree. It should be moved to the hashkafa thread. As for the debate/discussion. I think it's extremely important like I mentioned before I only see a lack of clarity in hashkafa.

[Saulius]

Interesting that R' Moshe felt it important enough to march to in Washington during the March of the Rabbis' in 1943. But yeah, we know better.

Yes, interesting -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbis%27_march_(1943)

But listening and being a shomaya  -  this time this war is unwinnable -- as this is Gog and Magog -- all the nations of the world are going to go against Israel - as when the entire world goes against Am Yisroel, it we be the biggest kiddush hashem when hashem will reveal himself to the entire world. So only teshuva / hashem  / ein od mevaldo is the salvation.

[imayid2]

Rav Yitzchok Sorotzkin, Rosh Yeshiva of Telz and Lakewood Mesivta, member of the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah, and author of about 80 seforim on Shas and Tanach gave a drasha and he said at around 27 minutes, that the whole idea of going to the Washington Rally is treif like chazer.  It's not going to help, it's going to make it worse - and it destroys the entire purpose of why Hashem brought this tzara on klal yisrael.  As it's exactly the opposite of what Hashem wants from us. 

The hate of the non-Jews is unprecedented across the world and every gov't - it's going to become extremely dangerous outside Eretz Yisroel, (quoting
רבי יהונתן אייבשיץ  / יערות דבש /  but in Eretz Yisroel we have the extra special shemirah from Hashem.

Rachmana Latzlan, the demonstrations are counter-productive, the Arabs, Muslims and non-Jews are going to counter demonstrate, and they have much more people then us, and their malice and cruelty, it's opening up a tremendous sakana gedolah. It's going to antagonize all the colleges, non-Jews, and the Muslims.

These rally's should stop, and we should not go to these places. We do not belong in this places. They can incite the non-Jews around us. Chas v'shalom to think that this is what Hashem wants from us

We have to be careful and not go there. It's not our salvation.

See the shiur:

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He seems to be under the impression that the rally is to protest against the US government…

What about the Rabbis March in Washington during the Holocaust?

[Definitions2]

He seems to be under the impression that the rally is to protest against the US government…

What about the Rabbis March in Washington during the Holocaust?

From what do you see from the wording that he thinks it's about the us government?
Question must be asked to him as it seems like a solid question. Maybe he would say the same thing.
Either way I keep repeating this. To me it seems like there's a lack of clarity in hashkafa.

[imayid2]

I guess the difference between the Rabbis March and now is that at that point Jews were actually being slaughtered as opposed to now when Israel is pummeling Gaza and killing a lot of people which causes antagonization.

[Sammy82]

I guess the difference between the Rabbis March and now is that at that point Jews were actually being slaughtered as opposed to now when Israel is pummeling Gaza and killing a lot of people which causes antagonization.

WTH are you talking about? Did you not hear what happened on October 7th? Have you not heard daily Hamas saying how they are going to keep trying to repeat that until every last Jew is out of the Middle East?

[Dan]

WTH are you talking about? Did you not hear what happened on October 7th? Have you not heard daily Hamas saying how they are going to keep trying to repeat that until every last Jew is out of the Middle East?

+1.
Never mind the babies, children, women, and elderly in captivity. Creating pressure could be literal pidyan shivuyim.

[imayid2]

From what do you see from the wording that he thinks it's about the us government?

@30:55

[imayid2]

WTH are you talking about? Did you not hear what happened on October 7th? Have you not heard daily Hamas saying how they are going to keep trying to repeat that until every last Jew is out of the Middle East?

Seems you missed the point.

During the Holocaust were Jews fighting back and killing people by the hundred/thousands?

[imayid2]

Yes, interesting -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbis%27_march_(1943)

But listening and being a shomaya  -  this time this war is unwinnable -- as this is Gog and Magog -- all the nations of the world are going to go against Israel - as when the entire world goes against Am Yisroel, it we be the biggest kiddush hashem when hashem will reveal himself to the entire world. So only teshuva / hashem  / ein od mevaldo is the salvation.

He did not say anything about this. I assume he presumes we don’t know which wars fall under מלחמת גוג ומגוג like most people would say.

[Sammy82]

Seems you missed the point.

During the Holocaust were Jews fighting back and killing people by the hundred/thousands?

Nope. And how did that turn out?

[imayid2]

Nope.

So there was no one to be upset at them for marching on Washington to ask the US to intervene and stop the killing. 
Correct?

[flyingace]

That I agree. It should be moved to the hashkafa thread. As for the debate/discussion. I think it's extremely important like I mentioned before I only see a lack of clarity in hashkafa.

Continuing here because this is where the discussion is but I think the mods should move it.
I don't have time to cite/link sources, but here are some good places to start.

1-Shem's words to Rivkah Imeinu about the two nations in her womb and the mefarshim.
2-The mefarshim and medrashim on Yaakov and Eisav's meeting.
3-The mefarshim and medrashim on the words פנו לכם צפונה in the beginning of Sefer Devarim.
4-The concept of Hishtadlus and Bitachon in classical Jewish thought.
5-The Michtav Me'eliyahu on Galus Edom where he discusses why each Galus was in the hands of a specific nation.
6-Meshech Chochmah in בחוקתי about the cycle of Jewish history in Galus.

[aygart]

Interesting that R' Moshe felt it important enough to march to in Washington during the March of the Rabbis' in 1943. But yeah, we know better.

What makes you so certain this is the same thing as that? You know better?

[aygart]

WTH are you talking about? Did you not hear what happened on October 7th? Have you not heard daily Hamas saying how they are going to keep trying to repeat that until every last Jew is out of the Middle East?

How many are they killing per day  now? How many were getting killed per day then?

[aygart]

+1.
Never mind the babies, children, women, and elderly in captivity. Creating pressure could be literal pidyan shivuyim.

It is still not in any way comparable to the Holocaust.

[Dan]

It is still not in any way comparable to the Holocaust.

Only because G-d didn't allow it.
It's clear that Israel had no plans to stop an attack from Gaza and that this could have been 100x worse.

[whacked1]

So there was no one to be upset at them for marching on Washington to ask the US to intervene and stop the killing. 
Correct?

There was opposition to the march on Washington. Most notably from the reform movement who claimed it will cause an increase in anti-semitism

[Jellybelly]

There was opposition to the march on Washington. Most notably from the reform movement who claimed it will cause an increase in anti-semitism

“Rabbi” Wise caused a lot of problems then

[imayid2]

There was opposition to the march on Washington. Most notably from the reform movement who claimed it will cause an increase in anti-semitism

Interesting, need to read up on that, do you have a link?

Whatever risks there were are incomparable to what’s going on now.