Author Topic: Rally in Washington 11/14/23  (Read 60011 times)

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #220 on: November 10, 2023, 01:02:10 PM »
The reason why the Chassidish and Yeshivish communities will never be part of it

Agudah put out a statement encouraging people to go, and I've seen self identified yeshivish people promoting it.

Chabad Chassidim are joining in individual capacities albeit without any official chabad organization lending its name to the march.

As stated above, I wasn't sure myself if I should go, in part because of some of what you say here. I'm not going to be singing hatikvah or waving an Israeli flag. I've never been to a "pro Israel march before.

I do believe you are wrong about the communities who will not join, and many many more from these communities will join than you think. The American politicians who this is supposed to impress do not need to know about the nuances of the religious Jews' fight against Zionism. What matters is its that Jewish lives in Israel and around the world are protected, and American law makers have a hand in that, bderech hatevah.

The notion that multiple bus loads would be going from Crown Heights to a Federation march would have been laughable just a few weeks ago.

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #221 on: November 10, 2023, 01:14:37 PM »
Agudah put out a statement encouraging people to go, and I've seen self identified yeshivish people promoting it.

Chabad Chassidim are joining in individual capacities albeit without any official chabad organization lending its name to the march.

As stated above, I wasn't sure myself if I should go, in part because of some of what you say here. I'm not going to be singing hatikvah or waving an Israeli flag. I've never been to a "pro Israel march before.

I do believe you are wrong about the communities who will not join, and many many more from these communities will join than you think. The American politicians who this is supposed to impress do not need to know about the nuances of the religious Jews' fight against Zionism. What matters is its that Jewish lives in Israel and around the world are protected, and American law makers have a hand in that, bderech hatevah.

The notion that multiple bus loads would be going from Crown Heights to a Federation march would have been laughable just a few weeks ago.

Could be I gave too much of a broad stroke there but I didn't see any mainstream Yeshiva or organization putting their name on it. Agudah was also very parve in their wording. The CH BD letter also has some carefully crafted wording in it, avoiding to call it by it's name. I see you have that feeling as well.

As I said, I do believe this march will be beneficial, both in supporting the current US policy so they shouldn't cave to left pressure, and also to show support for Jewish lives. If frum people can be part of it given the nature of the march, that's the question. And it seems that most have the answer.

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #222 on: November 10, 2023, 01:22:10 PM »
Could be I gave too much of a broad stroke there but I didn't see any mainstream Yeshiva or organization putting their name on it. Agudah was also very parve in their wording. The CH BD letter also has some carefully crafted wording in it, avoiding to call it by it's name. I see you have that feeling as well.

As I said, I do believe this march will be beneficial, both in supporting the current US policy so they shouldn't cave to left pressure, and also to show support for Jewish lives. If frum people can be part of it given the nature of the march, that's the question. And it seems that most have the answer.
Call it parve if you want, but for Rabbi Dessler to send this out too all parents and have his organization's name as an affiliate is huge.


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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #223 on: November 11, 2023, 08:40:53 PM »
Listen, I totally get the issue of not wanting to appear as supporting the state of Israel and the ideals of Zionism, but I think we are mature enough at this point in Golus to understand that we can separate between what has to be done and what we feel. I'm sure we would be able to arrange for a huge section of Chassidim/Yeshivish with no Israeli flags and drashos and tehillim. BH we have the numbers, and we can make a huge difference.

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #224 on: November 11, 2023, 09:29:51 PM »
Listen, I totally get the issue of not wanting to appear as supporting the state of Israel and the ideals of Zionism, but I think we are mature enough at this point in Golus to understand that we can separate between what has to be done and what we feel. I'm sure we would be able to arrange for a huge section of Chassidim/Yeshivish with no Israeli flags and drashos and tehillim. BH we have the numbers, and we can make a huge difference.

I have heard that the lukewarm Agudah email was largely due to the fact that it was not going to be structured to cater to the yeshivish/chassidish crowd (don't mean to overgeneralize here). Please share if you have heard to the contrary.

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #225 on: November 11, 2023, 09:32:18 PM »
'Sharing some news. The parents/relatives of the hostages will be flying in to the Rebbes Ohel tomorrow and then for the first time in history El Al will be making a domestic flight to the demonstration in Washington. Brocha Vehatzocha. Besuros Tovos Moshiach Now'

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #226 on: November 11, 2023, 09:39:13 PM »
I have heard that the lukewarm Agudah email was largely due to the fact that it was not going to be structured to cater to the yeshivish/chassidish crowd (don't mean to overgeneralize here). Please share if you have heard to the contrary.


From the CH Beis Din's letter -


...assurances have been made to us that there will be a general commitment to halachic standards, including but not limited to respecting our sense of modesty.

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #227 on: November 11, 2023, 09:43:22 PM »
I have heard that the lukewarm Agudah email was largely due to the fact that it was not going to be structured to cater to the yeshivish/chassidish crowd (don't mean to overgeneralize here). Please share if you have heard to the contrary.
Unfortunately most American Jews are not 'yeshivish/chassidish' and the organizers are catering to 'their' crowd who will be joining.

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #228 on: November 11, 2023, 10:00:21 PM »
I have heard that the lukewarm Agudah email was largely due to the fact that it was not going to be structured to cater to the yeshivish/chassidish crowd (don't mean to overgeneralize here). Please share if you have heard to the contrary.
I did not hear anything about that, what I was saying that if we took a more active role, we could have had that arranged gladly.

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #229 on: November 11, 2023, 10:03:47 PM »

From the CH Beis Din's letter -


...assurances have been made to us that there will be a general commitment to halachic standards, including but not limited to respecting our sense of modesty.

Yeah that's beyond vague and clearly not enough for the Agudah to work with.....

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #230 on: November 11, 2023, 10:04:39 PM »
I did not hear anything about that, what I was saying that if we took a more active role, we could have had that arranged gladly.

So you are speculating?

Offline Jellybelly

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #231 on: November 11, 2023, 10:10:22 PM »
I saw someone post that people should also bring American flags
to show our hakaras hatov.
Iím wondering which flag is more triggering for the pro-Palestinians....

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #232 on: November 11, 2023, 10:11:33 PM »
So you are speculating?
No, I am not speculating at all. I wrote that the concerns about actively being seen supporting Zionism and with the content of the event could have easily been dealt with had someone like the Aguda or similar worked with them.

Offline justaregularguy

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #233 on: November 11, 2023, 10:43:40 PM »
Sharing rabbi YY Jacobson view of the current times, and according to this speech, is very behind the rally.
Basic summary is thereís 3 ways to confront evil. Fight, diplomatic means, and Torah. And all 3 need to be used. If the basis of the whole thing comes from a Torah perspective, then the fight becomes Torah, and the diplomatic means becomes Torah.
Listen here

https://youtu.be/TQvP21scAQU?t=4449
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #234 on: November 11, 2023, 10:46:58 PM »
I will try. I am neither Rav nor talmid chacham...We are obligated to learn from the events around us. If we see the fallout of arrogance and כחי ועוצם ידי it becomes clear that it is that middah that we need to uproot. That does not explain anything about why the Kedoshim were killed. The mefarshim say that he is called Yishmael because he will make us call out to Hashem and He will listen to us. The atrocities,too, are the hand of Hashem. That doesn't mean I know WHY they happened or WHY those people and not others.
I do believe that current events are moving us to a point in history that is unprecedented and that I hope and pray we get it right this time! (See Meshech Chochmah and Michtav Eliyahu mentioned above)
worth seeing the whole article - written during the second Intifada
https://agudah.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/JO2001-V34-N07.pdf
Quote
IV. DIVINE JUSTICE

Why does all this happen? Mortal man can never know the why of Hashem's direction of human affairs. A human being is incapable of understanding how Hashem directs the affairs of men. "Ki lo machshevosai machshevoseicheim ve'lo darcheichem derachai - Your thoughts are not comparable to Mine, nor are your ways like Mine." Ramchal ( Daas Tevunos, pp. 193-194) explains that Hashem directs the affairs of the world on more than one level. There is the overarching guidance of the world to its purpose and, within that larger picture there is the direction of the affairs of men, based on their actions ( hanhagas hamishpat) and on what is required for the world to attain its objective as willed by Hashem ( hanhagashamaza[). The intertwining of these strands is one of the mysteries of the world, and is beyond human understanding. (See also Rabbi Chaim Shmuelevitz, Sichos Mussar, 5732, #9.)

The world, as Rabbi Yeruchem Levovitz 7"lll (Mashgiach of Mir) explained, is a very deceptive p1ace, and one can easily come to the erroneous conclusion
that it is the wicked who are the cause of tragedy and suffering. But that conclusion is a denial of Divine direction of world affairs. However, as the Slabodka Mashgiach, Rabbi Avraharn Grodzenski i""il, wrote: Yesurim - suffering and adversity- are Divine messengers, intended to show us the error of our ways and to illuminate the path ahead. Suffering in our times, he writes, is the Divinely-ordained surrogate for prophecy, tailor-made for the individual, even for one who would not be deserving of a prophetic vision. 1'hus, it is axio1natic that whatever  suffering one undergoes is formulated in such a way that one can understand its 111essage. If one refuses to perceive misfortune as Divinely orchestrated, but views it only as happenstance ("im teilchu imi bekeri"), then the next blow, says the Ohr HaChaim Hakadosh (Vayikra 26,24), will be delivered in a seemingly random fashion, in which one cannot determine its cause. So although we have no way of knowing why Hashem inflicts punishment on one and not the other, everyone is absolutely required to try, to the best of our abilities, to attempt to fathom what lessons He wants us to learn from this, and how He wants us to respond. The midda keneged midda principle, which tells us that Hashem's direction of the affairs of men is prescriptive, will, if we are intellectually honest, help us to divine what Hashem's message is (see Rabbi Chaim Shmuelevitz, Sichos Mussar, 1972 #11).

If we apprehend the concept of ko Yisroel areivim zeh bazeh and realize that someone else may suffer for my misdeeds, then one is surely required to
attempt to understand what Hashem is telling us. We are certainly not capable of explaining the why and the what of these tragedies. One would venture, however, that there are several lessons that we can learn from the general trend of events of the last year. And there are theresponses which the Torah prescribes.

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #235 on: November 11, 2023, 10:56:54 PM »
Sharing rabbi YY Jacobson view of the current times, and according to this speech, is very behind the rally.
Basic summary is thereís 3 ways to confront evil. Fight, diplomatic means, and Torah. And all 3 need to be used. If the basis of the whole thing comes from a Torah perspective, then the fight becomes Torah, and the diplomatic means becomes Torah.
Listen here

https://youtu.be/TQvP21scAQU?t=4449
Bad link.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #236 on: November 11, 2023, 10:57:16 PM »
Yonason Rosenblum, April 2002
https://agudah.org/the-jewish-observer-vol-35-no-4-april-2002iyar-5762/
Quote
The mass demonstration in Wash-
ington D.C. on April 15 provides a ray
of hope for American Jewry. Over 100,000 Jews, and by some estimates twice that number, chose to be on the side of the Jews of Israel against the whole world. They recognized that Israel had no choice, and expressed their confidence that Israeli soldiers have shown greater sensitivity to civilian casualties than would any other country fighting in similar circumstances.

The unity of the Jewish people is itself
an important goal. There were times when the Hashem favored the Jewish people with military strength even under wicked kings, like Achav, just
because of their unity. That unity is also a precondition for the receipt of the
Torah- But it is not the receipt of the Torah itself. For that we have to turn towards Hashem as one. The massive prayer gathering six days
after the rally in Washington D.C. - 50,000 Jews filling Lower Manhattan and another 30,000 participating around the country- was, then, the second stage of a process. Yet we must not forget that the Jews gathered to recite Tehillim represent a small percentage of American Jewry, and that most American Jews have never beseeched Hashem through Tehillim.

We can only hope that what we witnessed in Washington D.C. did indeed represent a moment of profound Jewish identification that will lead to more and
more Jews joining us in turning to Hashem. For surely we have reached the stage where all the masks are off, and it is possible to feel, in an almost tactile fashion, that we have none other upon whom to rely than Our Father in Heaven.

Offline Dan

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #237 on: November 12, 2023, 12:02:11 AM »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #238 on: November 12, 2023, 10:10:22 AM »
Can we get everyone singing this?

https://twitter.com/hasidic_1/status/1714466698114330645

This is from Teaneck; I was there.

Originally, we were facing them and they were facing us. But at some point, a friend of mine had the brilliant idea that we should turn away and form a circle and put our backs to them. At that point we just started singing, and you could tell that it irked them to no end that we were not taking the bait.

It matters not what we say to them; it only matters what we say to the One above.
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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #239 on: November 12, 2023, 10:30:54 AM »
Can we get everyone singing this?

https://twitter.com/hasidic_1/status/1714466698114330645


From the CH Beis Din's letter -


...assurances have been made to us that there will be a general commitment to halachic standards, including but not limited to respecting our sense of modesty.