Author Topic: Rally in Washington 11/14/23  (Read 63167 times)

Offline Sammy82

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #340 on: November 13, 2023, 08:10:53 PM »
Anybody know if the event will be live streamed anywhere?

Offline ushdadude

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #341 on: November 13, 2023, 08:13:37 PM »

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #342 on: November 13, 2023, 08:21:50 PM »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline shmooz

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #343 on: November 13, 2023, 08:24:08 PM »
Anybody know if the event will be live streamed anywhere?

I would guess there will be, but no announcement yet to cut down on people sitting it out.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #344 on: November 13, 2023, 08:26:27 PM »
Just got this email from Chayainu:


March on Washington?
Practical Divrei Chizuk for the Ben Aliyah in the Workplace, by Rav Yosef Simcha Klein, author of Ben Aliyah B'Olam HaParnassah.
 
Q: There is much talk in my workplace about the upcoming pro-Israel march scheduled for Tuesday in Washington. I don't know much of the details but I am under the impression that the frum oilam is not being encouraged to go. I would appreciate some clarity on this issue and da ma shetashuv to my non-Jewish and non-Orthodox co-workers who can't figure out why I am not participating.
 
A: Ultimately, this is a daas Torah shailah which needs to be decided by gedolei u'manhigei Yisroel. Let me preface my words by stating the obvious- that I am not a spokesman of the gedolei Yisroel. All the ideas mentioned below are based on my own understanding of the Torah perspective on this sensitive issue.
 
Rather than discuss what to tell your secular co-workers, I think it’s important to first gain clarity ourselves. There seems to be much confusion on this topic, as many have compared it to the Rabbi’s March attended by gedolei Yisroel to pressure the government to save Yidden during the Holocaust. It is my goal to explain why this march is not comparable to past events and the many pitfalls that can arise for frum bnei Torah attending and partaking in this event.
 
Organizers: Unlike previous events arranged by, or under the guidance of gedolei Yisroel, the organizers of this march are major secular Jewish coalitions.

A decision for frum Yidden to join together with Jewish coalitions who are openly uncommitted to Hashem and His Torah, and also contain member organizations that openly defy and flaunt Torah morals and values, is extremely complex and cannot be taken lightly. There are clear halachic issues relevant to such collaboration, as well as the risk of negative consequences and public chillul Hashem that can result from even temporary associations with such organizations.

Content: As of yet, no one is clear about the exact contents of the messages that will be broadcasted by the speakers and the anticipated ‘entertainers’ at the rally. It is quite likely that at least some of the messaging will not be in line with Torah thinking. How can a visibly frum ben aliyah attend such an event and place himself in a position that he might be viewed publicly as agreeing with ideas that are antithetical to Torah?
 
Anti-Semitism: The organizers of this gathering are claiming that one of its goals is to combat the virulent anti-Semitism that has reared its ugly head in America and all over the world in the wake of the barbaric events of October 7th. If history is any barometer, high profile public displays of Jewish presence and power directed at the nations of the world, more often than not only serve to fan the flames of sinas yisreol chas v’shalom as opposed to minimizing it.
 
Pikuach Nefesh: One may counter that while all of the above points mentioned are true, perhaps in this instance the frum world should make an exemption, since it is a matter of pikuach nefashos כל המצות שבתורה. A large turnout at the event will help garner US government support for more financial and military aid towards the Israeli army and will result in more lives saved.

Furthermore, it can be argued that a major turnout might invoke more sympathy for the Jewish hostages which can pressure the Hamas to release the captives.

Unclear Hishtadlus: We have a tradition from the Chazon Ish that when there are direct and clear cut steps of practical hishtadlus, a person is obligated to take action and not rely solely on spiritual activity and zechusim. However, when there is considerable doubt if those practical steps are indeed legitimate forms of hishtadlus, and if those practical actions seem far-fetched from producing results, then even in matters of pikuach nefesh one is not obligated to do that hishtadlus and can rely on spiritual zechusim.
[See תשובות וכתבים ממרן החזון איש (סימן מ"ח), ופאר הדור (ח"ג עמ' קפ"ג ועוד שם)]
 
The idea that this march will impact congress, the president, and his advisers to be positively disposed to Israel is a far shot given their past track record vis-a-vis Israel. In regards to the hostages, the situation is so volatile, Hamas is so cruel and unpredictable, that it is unrealistic to think that marches will have any influence in bringing them home.

It’s clear from the varied reasons given by the very organizers of this march, that they themselves realize that it is far from a given that the gathering will actually cause congress and the government to provide more assistance to Israel, and also pressure Hamas to free the hostages. Their primary goal seems to be a display of solidarity with the State of Israel and to show the world and all the pro-Palestinian demonstrators that Jews also have a voice and can also demonstrate in great numbers. That, in and of itself, is not an act of hatzalas nefashos.

The truth is that even if it is a fact that the march in Washington will impact the US government to help Israel, will that necessarily translate into lives saved? In the current volatile situation in the Middle East, increase of aid is in no way a guarantee that Iran and the Arabs won’t be able to harm more Jews.
According to the guidelines of Chazon Ish mentioned above, the cardinal rule of פקוח נפש דוחה כל המצות שבתורה does not apply to this particular form of hishtadlus. As such, we fall back on the general Torah rule that discourages public associations with those secular organizations and we rely on our increased spiritual zechusim of our daily learning and tefillos to protect Klal Yisroel in the time tested spirit of הקול קול יעקב.
 
The Need to do Something:
Jews all across the spectrum feel helpless and traumatized by the events of the past few weeks. It is a basic psychological need for people to feel they are doing something concrete in the face of such adversity and challenge. How fortunate we are as Torah Jews that we have solid methods given to us by Hashem Himself for such a situation, such as increased tefillah and limud haTorah. We don’t have to resort to marches in Washington, whose benefit is doubtful at best, and at worst can even develop into a massive chillul Hashem chas V’shalom.
 
May we all be zocheh to hear only yeshuos and nechamos for Klal Yisroel!

Offline aygart

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #345 on: November 13, 2023, 08:28:56 PM »
Lakewood people are special and different then the rest of klal yisroel?

If these people are who you are referring to then the answer is that they are special and different because they observe the Torah. (there are probably a few individuals here who are observant, but not many)
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #346 on: November 13, 2023, 08:30:17 PM »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #347 on: November 13, 2023, 08:31:15 PM »
If these people are who you are referring to then the answer is that they are special and different because they observe the Torah. (there are probably a few individuals here who are observant, but not many)

נהרא נהרא ופשטיה וכל אחד יעשה כהוראת רבותיו.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #348 on: November 13, 2023, 08:32:26 PM »
Should we add a wiki to see which DDFers are going (and possibly meet-up)?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Essen est zich

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #349 on: November 13, 2023, 08:32:56 PM »
Chabad on Campus is making a rally for students at 11am. Only for students though.
Shloffen Shloft Zich

Offline aygart

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #350 on: November 13, 2023, 08:33:52 PM »
נהרא נהרא ופשטיה וכל אחד יעשה כהוראת רבותיו.


I didn't discuss at all whether someone should go or not.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Dan

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #351 on: November 13, 2023, 08:35:53 PM »
Should we add a wiki to see which DDFers are going (and possibly meet-up)?
Sure.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #352 on: November 13, 2023, 08:38:40 PM »
I think Lakewooders need one of their own to speak. Maybe Ben Shapiro?  ;D

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #353 on: November 13, 2023, 08:40:39 PM »
No representative of frum Jews?

Would any representative of frum Jews agree to speak?

Offline JMHO

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #354 on: November 13, 2023, 08:41:20 PM »
Anybody know if the event will be live streamed anywhere?
@jj1000 you're up ;)

Offline ushdadude

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #355 on: November 13, 2023, 08:41:44 PM »
Just got this email from Chayainu:


March on Washington?
Practical Divrei Chizuk for the Ben Aliyah in the Workplace, by Rav Yosef Simcha Klein, author of Ben Aliyah B'Olam HaParnassah.
 
So there really doesn't seem to be a machlokes in halacha at all....the disagreement boils down to whether you think this hishtadlus can help save lives or not.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #356 on: November 13, 2023, 08:46:12 PM »
Sure.

Wiki added. Please add your name if going. Also any other pertinent information.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #357 on: November 13, 2023, 08:47:46 PM »
Would any representative of frum Jews agree to speak?
I could think of some offhand. They may not be 'representing' frum Jews, but they are frum Jews who could speak.

Chaskel Bennett and Dov Hikind are just two random names that popped into my head.

Offline voldemort

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #358 on: November 13, 2023, 08:48:09 PM »

Offline AsherO

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Re: Rally in Washington 11/14/23
« Reply #359 on: November 13, 2023, 08:49:13 PM »
I personally feel like trying to meet up might be a distraction, but who knows
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)