Author Topic: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance  (Read 8246 times)

Offline niebloomj

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Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« on: November 29, 2023, 10:12:43 AM »
Freshly Updated Frum Finance Flowchart!

You can view it live at https://frum.finance/chart



Our Whatsapp Channel for Updates -> https://frum.finance/whatsapp

Feedback appreciated

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2023, 11:25:30 AM »
Number 0:
"If you have any children (or are pregnant), you MUST have a backup plan. Before frum.finance is able to work with you, we need you to have 1) Life insurance, 2) Short term disability insurance, and 3) a custody plan for your children if C”V both parents are gone."


Can anyone please explain how these 3 things are necessary to become financially stable and w/o them they won't help you???

Offline JMHO

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2023, 11:38:32 AM »
Number 0:
"If you have any children (or are pregnant), you MUST have a backup plan. Before frum.finance is able to work with you, we need you to have 1) Life insurance, 2) Short term disability insurance, and 3) a custody plan for your children if C”V both parents are gone."


Can anyone please explain how these 3 things are necessary to become financially stable and w/o them they won't help you???
It's their program and their rules. Why don't you ask them?

Offline niebloomj

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2023, 12:10:20 PM »
Number 0:
"If you have any children (or are pregnant), you MUST have a backup plan. Before frum.finance is able to work with you, we need you to have 1) Life insurance, 2) Short term disability insurance, and 3) a custody plan for your children if C”V both parents are gone."


Can anyone please explain how these 3 things are necessary to become financially stable and w/o them they won't help you???

It isn't claiming that they are necessary to become financially stable...

We don't feel comfortable taking someone on as a client if they aren't taking steps to protect their family from disaster to just become a charity campaign when something goes wrong. It's just about the balance of risk/energy/investment/time the organization is able to make for the clients. It's A LOT of resources provided to clients at ABSOLUTELY no cost, so we need to make sure there is some baseline of investment into their financial security on their end.

Fully transparency, the only one that we are incredibly strict with is making sure clients have enough life insurance.

Offline Sammy82

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2023, 12:19:34 PM »
It isn't claiming that they are necessary to become financially stable...

We don't feel comfortable taking someone on as a client if they aren't taking steps to protect their family from disaster to just become a charity campaign when something goes wrong. It's just about the balance of risk/energy/investment/time the organization is able to make for the clients. It's A LOT of resources provided to clients at ABSOLUTELY no cost, so we need to make sure there is some baseline of investment into their financial security on their end.

Fully transparency, the only one that we are incredibly strict with is making sure clients have enough life insurance.
Love it.
Something for you to consider-healthcare proxy should also be mandatory, especially considering how easy it is. Just download the state-appropriate form from the NASCK's website (with links to either the Agudah or RCA) and complete it. Takes about 10 minutes.

Offline Yo ssi

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2023, 12:28:27 PM »
Love it.
Something for you to consider-healthcare proxy should also be mandatory, especially considering how easy it is. Just download the state-appropriate form from the NASCK's website (with links to either the Agudah or RCA) and complete it. Takes about 10 minutes.
Also requires notarization IINM
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Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2023, 12:29:04 PM »
It isn't claiming that they are necessary to become financially stable...

We don't feel comfortable taking someone on as a client if they aren't taking steps to protect their family from disaster to just become a charity campaign when something goes wrong. It's just about the balance of risk/energy/investment/time the organization is able to make for the clients. It's A LOT of resources provided to clients at ABSOLUTELY no cost, so we need to make sure there is some baseline of investment into their financial security on their end.

Fully transparency, the only one that we are incredibly strict with is making sure clients have enough life insurance.
If someone is not financially well off how can you expect him to spend the extra money on life insurance? He could be very worried about his family but paying for insurance would literally take food out of his kids mouths'...

And regarding the custody, do you also make sure they send their kids to a good school, too?? What's the connection to finances?

Offline JMHO

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2023, 12:34:15 PM »
And regarding the custody, do you also make sure they send their kids to a good school, too??
Nope, that is not required!

Offline Sammy82

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2023, 12:36:32 PM »
Also requires notarization IINM
Definately not in NY. All you need are two witnesses. And it looks like in NJ too, witnesses are enough. If you don't have witnesses, then you should get it notarized.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2023, 12:40:59 PM »
If someone is not financially well off how can you expect him to spend the extra money on life insurance? He could be very worried about his family but paying for insurance would literally take food out of his kids mouths'...
You're describing a family that needs a dfferent type of assistance than what this orginization is offerring.


And regarding the custody, do you also make sure they send their kids to a good school, too?? What's the connection to finances?
Besides the ridicluousness of conflating taking care of the basic needs of a child like food and shelter to "good" schooling,

Fully transparency, the only one that we are incredibly strict with is making sure clients have enough life insurance.


Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2023, 12:56:56 PM »
Besides the ridicluousness of conflating taking care of the basic needs of a child like food and shelter to "good" schooling,
I agree. It's as ridiculous as requiring custody agreements for the children as a prerequisite for helping someone become financially stable.

Offline Yo ssi

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2023, 12:57:12 PM »
Definately not in NY. All you need are two witnesses. And it looks like in NJ too, witnesses are enough. If you don't have witnesses, then you should get it notarized.
Interesting I believe I did both
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2023, 01:04:51 PM »
I agree. It's as ridiculous as requiring custody agreements for the children as a prerequisite for helping someone become financially stable.

Have a blessed day

Offline Sammy82

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2023, 01:07:00 PM »
Interesting I believe I did both
It can't hurt to do both and could only help.
Here's a link I found with what's required in each state.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/finalization-requirements-health-care-directives.html

Offline Moshe Green

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2023, 01:11:47 PM »
Have a blessed day
I know it seems like I'm just trolling but i really do care to know why an organization who claims to want to help has this condition.

I remember fundraising for an organization and got to this guys house who had a kabalas kahal. Before he gave you money he made you sign that you won't speak during davening. I signed it because i don't speak anyways. But afterwards i felt violated. Because he's donating to an organization (not even to myself) he gets to run my life?

What right does this organization have to force people to make a custody agreement? Who are they?

Offline Sammy82

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2023, 01:28:21 PM »
I know it seems like I'm just trolling but i really do care to know why an organization who claims to want to help has this condition.

I remember fundraising for an organization and got to this guys house who had a kabalas kahal. Before he gave you money he made you sign that you won't speak during davening. I signed it because i don't speak anyways. But afterwards i felt violated. Because he's donating to an organization (not even to myself) he gets to run my life?

What right does this organization have to force people to make a custody agreement? Who are they?
Enough with the trolling already (again). If you don't like it, don't use their services.

Offline aygart

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2023, 01:32:41 PM »
I know it seems like I'm just trolling but i really do care to know why an organization who claims to want to help has this condition.

I remember fundraising for an organization and got to this guys house who had a kabalas kahal. Before he gave you money he made you sign that you won't speak during davening. I signed it because i don't speak anyways. But afterwards i felt violated. Because he's donating to an organization (not even to myself) he gets to run my life?

What right does this organization have to force people to make a custody agreement? Who are they?
They are not forcing anything until they force you to use their services.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2023, 01:34:03 PM »
What right does this organization have to force people to make a custody agreement? Who are they?
Fully transparency, the only one that we are incredibly strict with is making sure clients have enough life insurance.
Huh?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline niebloomj

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2023, 01:53:56 PM »
I know it seems like I'm just trolling but i really do care to know why an organization who claims to want to help has this condition.

I remember fundraising for an organization and got to this guys house who had a kabalas kahal. Before he gave you money he made you sign that you won't speak during davening. I signed it because i don't speak anyways. But afterwards i felt violated. Because he's donating to an organization (not even to myself) he gets to run my life?

What right does this organization have to force people to make a custody agreement? Who are they?

We do not force anyone to make a custody agreement. Our target demographic (and all non profits have a target audience) just happens to be clients that are willing to set one up because that works best for us and our values. We feel like we have our biggest impact with the demographic of people who are willing to establish appropriate plans for the situation of the loss of both parents (hence the additional requirement for life insurance). Not everyone had to be one of our clients.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Personal Finance Flowchart by Frum Finance
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2023, 02:37:06 PM »
@niebloomj Nice chart, though I have a question regarding step 0 and step 25.

I will precede the question with a quote (possibly paraphrased from original):

Q. What is the difference between a small problem and a big problem?
A. A small problem is a problem you can swallow, a big problem is a problem that could swallow you!

I rarely get any pushback on this definition.

As such, I really don't understand why you are putting off LTD (or IDI) to step 25 rather than step 0?

Also, STD and LTD are usually available as corporate benefits, not necessarily available to many in the frum world. So faced with the need for individual coverage rather than group STD and LTD, the first order of business would be IDI (STD isn't really common in the individual market, and referring to the quote above, is more of a "small problem").

It is important to keep in mind that when getting employer-sponsored STD and LTD, some might be portable, while others might not. It is important to keep it high on the awareness list that portability should be inquired about and exercised when needed. It is also important to keep in mind that sometimes the terms of employer-sponsored STD and LTD might not be that simple, and technicalities could sometimes lead to a denial of claim!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2023, 03:33:36 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan