Radical "Terrorist" Gang Digs Tunnels And Breaks 770 Wall

[Yehuda57]

So you are essentially conceding my point, just arguing that the only reason there isn't violence is that everyone terrified of the big, bad, Tzfatis. I think that's silly, but whatever.

I think you are seriously exaggerating the number of Lubavitchers who feel uncomfortable coming to 770 nowadays, but if that is true, and you saw the crowds that were just here for Yud Shvat (and every Tishrei), you should thanking those "goons." Imagine how dangerously packed the place would be without them!

Like I said, the degree of discomfort varies, but it is there, for most. That doesn't mean we don't go to 770,it means we suck it up and go anyway.

People are scared of violence because the violence happened and happens. Not because of irrational phobias. It's awfully sad that otherwise level headed people don't see what a 17 year old bochur might feel getting shouted at by 15 angry Israelis during dancing on Simchas Torah because he put his left foot down somewhere he wasn't supposed to.

[ExGingi]

@eitan770 do you know how many people would have wanted to daven by the omud but won't due to various degrees of violence?

When was the last time a Chazan in 770 was allowed to use a different tune for לכה דודי? How about הלל?

The fact that the violence doesn't always end up with physical fights is simply because most normal people will just acquiesce to the bullies rather than fight (and that often includes the gabboim).

I am still waiting for responses to my prior questions to you, but am not holding my breath.

[Galitzyaner]

disclaimer: I'm not justifying AT ALL what happened. Judging from the OUTCOME, this was a terrible, horrible, and sad episode.

So the project itself was admirable in your eyes. Just the outcome, not so nice...
Now, that's the problem.

I just want to point out, that if this wasn't done by these people, but by a group of non-meshichist, something inside of me says that the backslash wouldn't have been even close to the way it is happening now.

What a fantastic hypothetical. As if the other groups would hypothetically also throw benches at the NYPD, and also do ABC...XYZ.
As if to say, any other day of the year, these are peace-loving little lambs who wouldn't hurt a fly, and everyone just has an agenda picking on them.
Sorry, that doesn't fly. Only one group there behaves like Antifa.

and if this story had happened 15 years ago, before the social media craze, it wouldn't have been mushc of a "horrible story" either. IOW, the issue here is the chilul hashem which was caused, lav davka the actual nezek.

You may be 100% correct, but this happened now, not 15 years ago. Such a silly argument to defend these hooligans.

Yes, this was a reckless wild idea - but judging from the actual nezek done - (not judging from the outcomes) - I think the backlash is more agenda-driven.
should they have thought about what the outcome could have been - that's something to discuss..

"Something to discuss"?! WHAT?!

Was it a super duper dangerous excavation - that's also a discussion/argument to have.

Oh yeah, just a nice discussion for the Mikve. Now, let's get back to digging.

[Galitzyaner]

That's it. Other than that, all I've ever seen are small scuffles and shoving here and there, .... - but no real major violence.

"small scuffles and shoving here and there" - the line of the day.

Just unbelievable.

Talking about "divorced from reality"

[Galitzyaner]

So you are essentially conceding my point, just arguing that the only reason there isn't violence is that everyone terrified of the big, bad, Tzfatis. I think that's silly, but whatever.

Oh no, that's just a silly myth. They're well known in CH and the world over for their refined character, the ones whom every Lubavitcher is most proud of. Any stories to the contrary are just a product of the imagination of the agenda-driven..... never mind, the list is pretty much everyone besides them and the ones crazier than them. The victims and observers of their thousands of "scuffles" are just "silly" snowflakes, "but whatever."

[ExGingi]

What a fantastic hypothetical. As if the other groups would hypothetically also throw benches at the NYPD, and also do ABC...XYZ.

Some might be too young to remember that violence and "terrorism" was introduced by Detroit. They just seem to have become smarter over the years, and allow their rivals to self-destruct.

[Essen est zich]

.

[ExGingi]

I think you have unfortunately absorbed a narrative which is certainly out there, but is almost entirely divorced from reality. I would be very interested to see a list of incidents of "violence and large scale fighting" from the years 2013-2023. Because I was in 770 that entire time, and here are the ones I remember.

Let me refresh your memory about wholesale violence.

Hundreds of siddurim eliminated.

All copies of ליקוטי תורה, תורה אור, תרס"ו printed by קה"ת eliminated from 770 and replaced with unauthorized forgeries.

But keep on claiming we are "divorced from reality". I guess you suffer from a severe case of projection.

[ExGingi]

.

This is so misguided and ridiculous. The "call to action" is as useless as it gets. One Gabbay supports/encourages anarchy, and the others won't fight him.

It also shouldn't be addressed to residents of Crown Heights, but rather to the members of the shul (and mispalelim).

[zh cohen]

It also shouldn't be addressed to residents of Crown Heights, but rather to the members of the shul (and mispalelim).

For a guy who is perhaps most well known for educating all of DDF of the reality that every yid is a Lubavitcher, you seem seem awfully insistent to exclude most people from involvement in what happens in בית אגודת חסידי חב"ד.

[Dan]

For a guy who is perhaps most well known for educating all of DDF of the reality that every yid is a Lubavitcher, you seem seem awfully insistent to exclude most people from involvement in what happens in בית אגודת חסידי חב"ד.

Especially considering how many would feel uncomfortable being a member of the shul under its current leadership.

[ExGingi]

Especially considering how many would feel uncomfortable being a member of the shul under its current leadership.

On the contrary. Be a member and make changes happen.

[ExGingi]

For a guy who is perhaps most well known for educating all of DDF of the reality that every yid is a Lubavitcher, you seem seem awfully insistent to exclude most people from involvement in what happens in בית אגודת חסידי חב"ד.

Should we talk about the change that happened to אגודת חסידי חב"ד that excluded 99.99% of חסידי חב"ד from being members?

OTOH I don't think anyone is excluded from being a member of the Shul. Or do you think that an amount that is less than a third of קרן השנה is too exclusive?

The Rebbe expressed support for democratic systems, but you seem to prefer totalitarian ones where people cannot have any say.

[zh cohen]

On the contrary. Be a member and make changes happen.

How has that been working for you for the past 30 years?

[Dan]

On the contrary. Be a member and make changes happen.

Of בבל שבבית רבינו? 

What does a membership cost? How many members are there? Are there recognized elections?

[ExGingi]

How has that been working for you for the past 30 years?

Maybe if there would be more members that care, change could happen. Let's just say that the last elections were by non-members, so just ask yourself:

How has that been working for you for the past 30 years?

[ExGingi]

Of בבל שבבית רבינו? 

What does a membership cost? How many members are there? Are there recognized elections?

Membership costs $100 (and is included with seat purchase for ימים נוראים). IDK how many members currently exist, I would assume that it would not be too hard to get a list. Members should call for a meeting to amend the bylaws and call for elections.

BTW, how many members does אגודת חסידי חב"ד have?

[ExGingi]

For a guy who is perhaps most well known for educating all of DDF of the reality that every yid is a Lubavitcher, you seem seem awfully insistent to exclude most people from involvement in what happens in בית אגודת חסידי חב"ד.

You sound awfully similar to @eitan770. Making arguments that are totally divorced from reality (and using projection).

[Dan]

Membership costs $100 (and is included with seat purchase for ימים נוראים). IDK how many members currently exist, I would assume that it would not be too hard to get a list. Members should call for a meeting to amend the bylaws and call for elections.

BTW, how many members does אגודת חסידי חב"ד have?

I suppose I'm being OOT level naive, but what's stopping me from fundraising to sponsor the membership of 1,000 shluchim in the US and having them amend the bylaws and call for elections?

And isn't that cheaper that the endless lawsuits over control?

[ExGingi]

Especially considering how many would feel uncomfortable being a member of the shul under its current leadership.

I think it's pretty obvious what I think of the current Gabboim. Yet I would still pay less than 0.50 per weekday to be a member, ready for the day a majority of members decide they want change. I also contribute to the shul independently, where I think my contribution would have a positive effect.