Radical "Terrorist" Gang Digs Tunnels And Breaks 770 Wall

[zh cohen]

All this discussion about taking control of the legal entity is completely irrelevant, since they have absolutely no legal authority. Congregation Lubavitch Inc. lost in court and was evicted years ago (as mentioned in the recent appeals court decision).

Two of the gabboim responded to that ruling by claiming that they should be given control as individuals, not as representatives of CLI. They lost on that claim as well, and the appeals court just affirmed that ruling.

The question now is
1 - What, if any, legal steps they will take to delay the inevitable?
2 - What, if anything, can be done to enforce the rulings of the courts?

[ExGingi]

Nope, but I've been to hundreds of Chabad Houses and yeshivas and haven't heard no song even one time.

ROTFLMAO!

"Where would the Rebbe stand when they sung the niggunim before תקיעות?"

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I hope you do realize that Chabad Houses (by definition?) don't follow מנהג ליובאוויטש.

But I guess for people who think that Lubavitch can have a spokesperson other than the Rebbe, there can be others that determine what Chabad minhag is.

And while I will agree that in most Yeshivos nowadays it is sung, I've been to 770 upstairs where it wasn't sung, and even recently a small minyan downstairs.

[ExGingi]

What was sung with the Rebbe changed over time.

That wasn't my question. I asked about when Yud Shevat, Vov Tishrei, or Chof Menachem-Av occurred on Shabbos.

[ExGingi]

I'm not sure what this has to do with my comment. Please explain.

When you state that

you seem seem awfully insistent to exclude most people from involvement in what happens in בית אגודת חסידי חב"ד.

That is as opposite from reality as possible. Just look at what I'm advocating, and what you are advocating (or at least what it seems to me that you are advocating).

[Dan]

ROTFLMAO!

"Where would the Rebbe stand when they sung the niggunim before תקיעות?"

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I hope you do realize that Chabad Houses (by definition?) don't follow מנהג ליובאוויטש.

But I guess for people who think that Lubavitch can have a spokesperson other than the Rebbe, there can be others that determine what Chabad minhag is.

And while I will agree that in most Yeshivos nowadays it is sung, I've been to 770 upstairs where it wasn't sung, and even recently a small minyan downstairs.

Your disdain for Chabad Houses and shluchim is well noted, but if they don't follow a so called מנהג ליובאוויטש in any Tomchei Tmimim, then perhaps it's not a מנהג ליובאוויטש?

[Yo ssi]

https://youtu.be/L6eEi0U00q4

[Just A Jew]

Your disdain for Chabad Houses and shluchim is well noted, but if they don't follow a so called מנהג ליובאוויטש in any Tomchei Tmimim, then perhaps it's not a מנהג ליובאוויטש?

That depends on what constitutes a Minhag Lubavitch. If minhag means what is commonly done amongst Lubavitchers, then what is currently done is the minhag. If it means what the minhag was in Lubavitch, then what we do now is irrelevant.

[Just A Jew]

https://youtu.be/L6eEi0U00q4

Can't hear this without hearing London Boys.

[ExGingi]

Your disdain for Chabad Houses and shluchim is well noted, but if they don't follow a so called מנהג ליובאוויטש in any Tomchei Tmimim, then perhaps it's not a מנהג ליובאוויטש?

G-d forbid.

You are totally misreading me (including the PM I sent you). Are nuanced approaches and attitudes too difficult for you to understand? Is everything black and white?

Not only do I not have any disdain for Chabad Houses and Shluchim, I have the utmost respect and admiration for them. I do think poorly of those Shluchim who have disdain for non-Shluchim (especially those living in Crown Heights), or who engage in vicious fights and politics.

The fact is that the Rebbe instructed shluchim NOT to impose מנהגי ליובאוויטש on existing communities. As for tunes used, for practical reasons, Chabad Houses will often use tunes that are more familiar to their crowd that didn't grow up in Lubavitch, before introducing Chabad Niggunim. I even recall one time a specific out-of-towner (that happens to be Gezhe) having yahrzeit and davening Kabolas Shabbos in 770 (at a time when the Chazzan was actually allowed to lead with a niggun), who wanted to do לכה דודי to the tune of בך ה' חסיתי but got mixed up due to similar notes at the start and did a non-Lubavitch tune often used in Chabad houses (due to familiarity to people who davened elsewhere).

[aygart]

(Lets see how many get this)

[Just A Jew]

(Lets see how many get this)

Is this conversation not juicy enough that you're removing the popcorn?

[Euclid]

(Lets see how many get this)

Is this the opposite of watching paint dry

[aygart]

Is this conversation not juicy enough that you're removing the popcorn?

I couldn't find a good one of a wall demolition.

[ExGingi]

if they don't follow a so called מנהג ליובאוויטש in any Tomchei Tmimim, then perhaps it's not a מנהג ליובאוויטש?

You remind me of my FIL a"h mentioning the bochurim that wouldn't make the effort to learn Yiddish, insisting that the Rebbe will talk Hebrew.

And let's not forget the מנהג ליובאוויטש of making an unpublished eiruv.  (based on a misinterpretation of a possible quote that only one person can attest to).


Or in other words, how are you different from those who decide when the Rebbe is giving dollars or having Yechidus, when you try to determine what minhag Lubavitch is, and the Rebbe better adhere, because you have absolute proof...

[ExGingi]

Give the power back to the gezhe people to run the show.  How can A Gailiztyaner and a Sephardi ever work together?

What should I say? I'm neither of those!

[ExGingi]

if they don't follow a so called מנהג ליובאוויטש in any Tomchei Tmimim, then perhaps it's not a מנהג ליובאוויטש?

I've never spent Shabbos at the Ohel. What is the minhag there? Is it uniform across minyanim?

[Dan]

I've never spent Shabbos at the Ohel.

I haven't either. But somehow I'd guess that the number of Chabad minyanim in the world that don't sing L"D can be counted on 1 hand.

[ExGingi]

I haven't either. But somehow I'd guess that the number of Chabad minyanim in the world that don't sing L"D can be counted on 1 hand.

While I will agree that the overwhelming majority do sing, I would think that there are more than a handful that don't on every given shabbos.

[Galitzyaner]

Some might be too young to remember that violence and "terrorism" was introduced by Detroit. They just seem to have become smarter over the years, and allow their rivals to self-destruct.

Irrelevant, and there's no comparison. It was never of such frequency and more importantly magnitude.
Of course it's never acceptable regardless of background or persuasion.
And that is why extremism and radicalism are so detrimental.

והיוצא מכל זה is which מוסדות חינוך you decide to place your children in can determine the future ואכמ"ל.
And if you do send your children to hotbeds of radicalism, take a good look in the mirror before you keep ranting.

(לאו דווקא referring to anyone specific here)

[ExGingi]

Irrelevant, and there's no comparison. It was never of such frequency and more importantly magnitude.

Ever heard of נצטננה האמבטי בפני כל הרואים?

I think that is significant. But agree with you that it is irrelevant and pointless to delve into the past.

I would like to doubt that there are any institutions that encourage violence, more likely not a strong enough denouncement. Though if there are any institutions that "dehumanize" (I don't think there's a specific term to exclude people from Lubavitch) other opinions within Lubavitch, that is definitely a problem.